Goedrum 13" 3 zone Cymbal Wiring

[bcslaam]

I have a goedrum 13" 3 zone with choke.

I get the bow mostly triggering correctly, edge switch is touchy but I get the bell triggering from the edge and nothing is picking up the actual bell. I also cant get choke to work.

I think these are piezo/switch/switch but could be wrong, there is NOTHING on this product.

I suspect that using a normal balanced audio lead is the wrong wiring but I cant find anywhere that is specific to goedrum socket wiring, thus I cant be sure whats going to megadrum.

Can anyone suggest how to wire my cables? Is there some way of configuring MD so that I can swap the bell and edge switch around?

[ignotus]

You could try to figure out how it's wired with a multimeter: check for continuity between sleeve and ring while pressing the bell and edge to see if they're switches. If so, see if one (in Yamaha cymbals it's the edge switch) has a resistance of ∼10K when pressed. This is assuming the cymbal has just one stereo jack.

Also, you can't just plug it in and expect it to work, you have to configure it properly. For instance, you ask about swapping the bell and edge, but all you have to do is assign the right notes to each one. Assuming it's a Yamaha-style cymbal (from what I've seen I'd reckon it is), check this out: http://www.megadrum.info/content/setting-yamaha-style-3-zone-cymbal

[bcslaam]

Thanks for your reply Ignotus. I certainly havent just plugged it in and expected it to work though.

In fact I am totally lost as to how to set this up. Ive been at it 3 days now and am quite disillusioned. This aint easy

I have an STM32F with FW 20150826, windows 8.1 (drivers loaded and working), MDM latest 20150614, Goedrum HHat controller (I calibrated as instructed and it's working), Goedrum 13" 3zone cymbal (I have gone to menu and calibrated all-bell and all-edge switch). I am using Superior Drummer2 so have done the note assignments as Dmitri has described (same note number for each switch in different open states).
It appears like the piezo which is actually attached to the box underneath it going to tip and sleeve. I followed the yamaha pcy155 setup you linked to.
Hihat pedal only works with the cable half out of the MD socket (I have tried crossing over tip and ring to no avail. What to do here?

I have opened up the cymbal and discovered the switch has 1 pair of ribbons going into one normal circuit and one pair going to another with a 20k resistor in it. These are both sent to ring. First question is,

1) given this is sold as a 3 zone cymbal with choke, how come these four ribbons are paired up and only sent to two circuits, one normal and the other with 20k? How is MD gonna get 3 switches and choke out of that?

2) the documentation refers to Bnote and Bthresh in the Rim/Edge area, well that isnt there! There is a 3rd Zone section, is that now the Bell parameters? In terms of hihat, there is no description or instructions for 3rd zone, midpoint, mid point width.

3) gain at 0, adjusting head/bow threshold way down to obtain noise floor of head/bow section causes rim/edge to trigger!! how is this so! shouldnt I be seeing the blue head hit start to trigger as I bring head/bow threshhold down?

4) choke is intermittent, in fact pedal response was fine last night, UI turn it on and it requires auto level enabled again before it reacts. It seems like Im just going in circles. Nothing seems consistent, even when I hit a spot consistantly on the cymbal the hit strength is all over the place. Lastly and most importantly I cant get MD to decipher the three zones its all just rim/edge or sometimes! head/bow, but never switching correctly.

I have read the forum, the documentation. I need help Dmitri.

PS hows this...I have head/bow note set to 19 and rim edge set to 18 yet it is outputting c-1!! note 0 to reaper. What is going on!!

[ignotus]

Post a screenshot of your settings.

As for the switch ribbons, my guess is that one is underneath the edge - that's the choke switch. Then there'll be another switch for the edge and a last one for the bell. Yes, they all go to ring; MD distinguishes between edge and bell because of the resistor - what I don't know is whether 20k is an OK value. Chokes are detected because the module detects a long press as opposed to a hit.

[bcslaam]

thanks igotus, here it is, obviously being on my 3rd day now i have tried many different settings (including he defaults), but this is the current state

with rim/edge threshold on any value other than 0 it outputs only green rim/edge note 0.

So I set it to 0 - with pedal open it alternates with blue head note 19 and green rim note 0
with pedal in any other position all hits (including on the edge and bell) are head note 19

[bcslaam]

why is rim/edge outputting note 0 at all. There is nowhere that its set to that. Its set to 18 as you can see. No other pads are set to 0 (C-1) either, yet it is the only value coming from rim/edge.

Its behaving as if there is an altNote set and as you can see there isnt, I have double checked the module.

[dmitri]

1. If you want to disable Alt and Pressroll, you don't set them to 0. You should set them equal to Note.
2. HiHat notes for any position but open are couming from the Pedal Notes settings. If you use CC 4 messages for pedal positions in your soft synth then you have to set all Half/Semi/Open/Close Pedal Notes equal to HiHat notes.
3. If it is a Yamaha type 3 zone cymbals then Threshold on the the Edge and 3rd zone Threshold (BThreshold) don't seem to be set correctly. Did you use http://www.megadrum.info/content/settin ... one-cymbal to find initial Threshold values?

[bcslaam]

1. If you want to disable Alt and Pressroll, you don't set them to 0. You should set them equal to Note.

OK I've put them equal to note, also checked the "link to note" button. I did have that button enabled for a number of tests BTW.

1) Why does it say disabled at 0 then if this is not the case?

2. HiHat notes for any position but open are couming from the Pedal Notes settings. If you use CC 4 messages for pedal positions in your soft synth then you have to set all Half/Semi/Open/Close Pedal Notes equal to HiHat notes.

Yes, I did this way back when I followed your instructions for SD setup on my first day.

3. If it is a Yamaha type 3 zone cymbals then Threshold on the the Edge and 3rd zone Threshold (BThreshold) don't seem to be set correctly. Did you use http://www.megadrum.info/content/settin ... one-cymbal to find initial Threshold values?

Yes I did on the first day. And whenever I suspected they were lost I went thru that process again ie Set All EdgeSw etc just in case. Since trying all the defaults and after following your instructions related to above in my first day of testing I have stripped back the settings one by one and trying from scratch.

2) Edge threshold is 0 because at any other number MD outputs note#0 (C-1). 3rdzone seems to have no effect.

3) Why does my pedal only work when the jack is half out?

4) When using the MD panel the rotary knob intermittently ceases to have effect (it gets stuck on a page whilst Im turning the dial) MD freezes for 10sec and returns to VU. After, I turn the rotary and it works again. Its like the UI crashes, freezes and goes back to VU.

5) Often after restart or turning on for the first time in a while the pedal shows normal operation on the MD VU but MDM pedal VU is not showing any movement. MD seems unstable.

6) Master Note, SetAllEdgeSW and BowSW are not present in the software, only via the panel. Why is this? Is there a definitive and updated list of what I cant access from the software manager ie hidden features?

[dmitri]

1. If you want to disable Alt and Pressroll, you don't set them to 0. You should set them equal to Note.

OK I've put them equal to note, also checked the "link to note" button. I did have that button enabled for a number of tests BTW.

1) Why does it say disabled at 0 then if this is not the case?

Because when you want to disable an input you set its main Note to 0 (disabled).

2. HiHat notes for any position but open are couming from the Pedal Notes settings. If you use CC 4 messages for pedal positions in your soft synth then you have to set all Half/Semi/Open/Close Pedal Notes equal to HiHat notes.

Yes, I did this way back when I followed your instructions for SD setup on my first day.

You have to choose. Either you use CC 4 for HiHat pedal positions and then you set Pedal Notes equal to HiHat notes, or you use MegaDrum for pedals positions and then you have to set all Pedal Notes to desired notes for all positions.

3. If it is a Yamaha type 3 zone cymbals then Threshold on the the Edge and 3rd zone Threshold (BThreshold) don't seem to be set correctly. Did you use http://www.megadrum.info/content/settin ... one-cymbal to find initial Threshold values?

Yes I did on the first day. And whenever I suspected they were lost I went thru that process again ie Set All EdgeSw etc just in case. Since trying all the defaults and after following your instructions related to above in my first day of testing I have stripped back the settings one by one and trying from scratch.

2) Edge threshold is 0 because at any other number MD outputs note#0 (C-1). 3rdzone seems to have no effect.

Please post screenshot settings after you followed http://www.megadrum.info/content/settin ... one-cymbal and show a MIDI Log screenshot showing the problem.

3) Why does my pedal only work when the jack is half out?

Could be a cable problem?

4) When using the MD panel the rotary knob intermittently ceases to have effect (it gets stuck on a page whilst Im turning the dial) MD freezes for 10sec and returns to VU. After, I turn the rotary and it works again. Its like the UI crashes, freezes and goes back to VU.

Encoder are mostly meant for fast navigation/changing values by large numbers. With slow rotation they may skip a detent. Use Up/down buttons to change values by one.
Also, it not freezes, it pauses for 10sec in the Menu after last button press/rotary position change/config received from MDM.

5) Often after restart or turning on for the first time in a while the pedal shows normal operation on the MD VU but MDM pedal VU is not showing any movement. MD seems unstable.

Did you set MegaDrum to Autoload any particular config on startup? Once you restarted, did you reconnect MDM to MegaDrum and sync configs between MegaDrum and MDM?

6) Master Note, SetAllEdgeSW and BowSW are not present in the software, only via the panel. Why is this? Is there a definitive and updated list of what I cant access from the software manager ie hidden features?

There are no hidden features in MDM. SetAllEdgeSW and BowSW have not been implemented in MDM since really nobody asked for them.

[bcslaam]

You have to choose. Either you use CC 4 for HiHat pedal positions and then you set Pedal Notes equal to HiHat notes, or you use MegaDrum for pedals positions and then you have to set all Pedal Notes to desired notes for all positions.

Yes I chose cc4 a while back and understand that notes are ganged by zone. I am sending to the dedicated trig note numbers in SD as per your description. I will now try switching to "pot" option and using MDM for pedalnotes.

Could be a cable problem?

I have mutitested point to point, no crossovers, all good.

Did you set MegaDrum to Autoload any particular config on startup? Once you restarted, did you reconnect MDM to MegaDrum and sync configs between MegaDrum and MDM?

I did have it set for a slot I thought was updated. Will turn it autoload off for now.

I can change from only head or only 3rd zone (dampened note only) by changing the edge threshold value from 0 to 1 and above, but not by hitting different zones. The switches arent registering yet.

1) Is the 20k resister inside cymbal compatible?

2) Why, when I turn edge threshold above 0 to get 3rd zone, is it only governed by the dampened note number not the main note number?

3) how do I get the switches to register, is it related to the fact that my pedal jack has to be pulled half way out. Inferring that the Goedrum or MD internal wiring is the issue?