Cymbal Positional Sensing

[macca2004]

Hi Guys

I'm no expert on electronics or drum triggers, but I have been reading some of the posts with regards to positional sensing and that Dmitri has started some work on this.

This is my question

Would it be possible to come up with something similar for cymbals, so the the responses coming back fron the cymbal to the module include positional information. You would still need two piezos i would think, but you could trigger edge/bow/bell without having to make complicated diy switches which last no time at all before failing or trying to balance 3 piezos to get the response.

I think it would take a doughnut shaped piezo on the bell and another on the edge somewhere...

I know this would mean adding to the firmware and developing a suitable trigger but the people on this board definatley have the ability to do that.

What do others think? Any Ideas?

[dmitri]

I have some thoughts on this but I need to do some experiments.

[Ken Forgettable]

I think it would take a doughnut shaped piezo on the bell and another on the edge somewhere...

I think most alloy cymbals resonate more about the radius rather than through it like a drum head; the outer limits should be at a lower frequency?? Plastic jobbies - I dunno - I suppose there will be a sweet spot for those as well...

It's a good idea!

[ole_hansen]

as far as i know there are no drum samplers out there (BFD, S2 etc..etc..) that supports positional sensing on cymbals.

[Ken Forgettable]

BFD2:- Currently, positional sensing support is implemented for snares, to switch between the hit/half-edge articulations.
We will be implementing positional sensing support for other slots very soon in an update release.

[dmitri]

BFD2:- Currently, positional sensing support is implemented for snares, to switch between the hit/half-edge articulations.
We will be implementing positional sensing support for other slots very soon in an update release.

"We" as in "we, Fxpansion/BFD developers..."?

[macca2004]

But if the module firmware allocates a midi note based on the position of the strike couldn't that then trigger any sound you choose through the software. I use superior 2 and the ride, for example does have samples for bow/bell/edge.

I mentioned dougnut shaped piezo because as the main piezo i believe that it should be central to the trigger to acheive PS. There is a patent application for such a piezo for drum triggers, but i've never seen it in production. I suppose you could put 4 small piezos in parallel around the circumference of the bell to acheive the same effect.

[Ken Forgettable]

"We" as in "we, Fxpansion/BFD developers..."?

They should be around here somewhere, I can smell 'em.
Could be vapourware I smell but nope, I don't think so

ole_hansen got me poking around a bit - it's at the end of this FAQ.

[fuzzysnuggleduck]

But if the module firmware allocates a midi note based on the position of the strike couldn't that then trigger any sound you choose through the software. I use superior 2 and the ride, for example does have samples for bow/bell/edge.

I mentioned dougnut shaped piezo because as the main piezo i believe that it should be central to the trigger to acheive PS. There is a patent application for such a piezo for drum triggers, but i've never seen it in production. I suppose you could put 4 small piezos in parallel around the circumference of the bell to acheive the same effect.

Current positional sensing methods use MIDI CC messages to tell the sampler where on the head you're striking. MegaDrum does not send a different MIDI note depending on where you hit for it's in-the-works positional sensing method. I know you're saying "if MegaDrum did do that" but I think that method doesn't actually provide real positional sensing, it just provides "zones", which can already be done with multiple peizos or switches, which of course brings up isolation issues and what not as well.

[Ken Forgettable]

A CC message is the accepted method but should point out that the BFD FAQ (above) says only 2 positions are supported even on the snare – it's the same code and I think I've seen 64 samples per cell before so where's the trade off happening!?