Feature request: velocity-dependent notes

[ignotus]

If this finally doesn't make it into the firmware, I've been thinking about another -albeit slightly complicated- option using Hydrogen. This application lets you assign up to 16 velocity layers to each note with the samples of your choice in each one, meaning that without changing notes you can have up to 16 different velocity-dependent sounds in a single pad if you want. If you want to use your favourite VST's sounds, then there's another application called Synthclone (linux only) with which you can make Hydrogen drum kits out of any midi-based drum VST. In my case, I'd route only the ride midi notes to Hydrogen, mute it in AD, and do the magic there.

While doable, it'd still be a royal pain in the arse.

And no, I'd prefer not to just move the whole AD kit to Hydrogen because even if you do that, it still doesn't sound half as realistic as the real thing (it doesn't do round-robin sampling among other things), but I could live with it using it for 1 pad.

I just mention it because other people might find it useful for purposes different to mine - it's a very versatile program, and it's open source

[ignotus]

OK, just discovered that Midi-Ox works in Linux with WINE without adding any latency... and that it has a "data mapping" function that can do precisely what I've been looking for... Still, it'd be nice not to have to open an extra application for something as trivial, though I know I'm probably sounding like a spoilt brat

Edit: (Better still for my use, I found a simpler Linux option which I've scripted to open with AD and jack with a single click: QmidiRoute)

[airflamesred]

You make some vital points there, Ignotus. I think the move towards VST and certainly VI samples is the future. All orchestral percussion is set out like this, with 6 to 9 velocity and up to 9 round robins so it seems obvious that kit samples will do the same (if not already).

The boxes that come with roland and yamaha kits will be a distant memory. I really don't see why everyone doesn't use an MD. Choose your pads,mesh heads, cymbals etc get a MD and you're free to use the samples you want. The price of roland kits is ridiculous. I've digressed.

Take, for example, a conga. Now the 'slap' hit is perfect for a velocity based idea like this and it feels comfortable to play.
Simmons legendary MTM had up to 6 velocity layers to play musical chords. Perhaps a niche market now and I think we're agreed that 2 layers is enough and one of the layers could perhaps be used for program change.

The reason I prefer using 2 inputs and curves is that the option is then there to layer notes rather than just an alt note based on velocity. Along with the current alt note feature and pnote,we could be looking at 6 different articulations from 1 piezo. As you all know this is what gives a drum real feeling.

I shall be throwing some money at this, nearer Christmas, Dmitri. Although this can be done in VST, I think this would be a more logical place to put it.

[ignotus]

Take, for example, a conga. Now the 'slap' hit is perfect for a velocity based idea like this and it feels comfortable to play.
Simmons legendary MTM had up to 6 velocity layers to play musical chords. Perhaps a niche market now and I think we're agreed that 2 layers is enough and one of the layers could perhaps be used for program change.

Yes, I think it opens up a lot of possibilities - e.g. you can have a pad that plays a cowbell with softer hits and a splash with harder hits, like you said, make program changes; some people like having rim shot sounds with maximum velocity on the snare head, you can have rim clicks (soft)/rim shots (hard) on the snare hoop so you don't have to be so accurate hitting the head and rim... you can basically double the articulations/sounds of any pad. Being a PC-based setup -and we all know how PCs love to have excuses to freeze/hang, etc.- I think that the fewer applications you have in the mix, the less the chance of anything going wrong. I wasn't familiar with applications for remapping midi data -this discussion prompted me to do my homework- and I see now what Dmitri meant when he suggested doing it that way. Like you said, I myself also think it would be cool if this feature was integrated into MD, but it would be nice to fully consider -maybe someone else might want to chip in- whether the effort to implement it is worth it.

[dmitri]

After listening to everyone and some more thinking this is what I can suggest:

1. Add another Function called e.g. "Split" to the existing functions "Normal", "ProgramChange" and "CutOff".
2. When the Functions is set to "Split", Note is the note of low velocity hits, ANote is the note of high velocity hits and PNote is the velocity value separating (splitting) the whole velocity range into low and high velocity layers.

Advantages are:
1. No extra memory (RAM and EEPROM) is needed so no impact on Atmega644 based MegaDrum.
2. config with this feature will be compatible with current firmware version so it is less likely to mess your existing configs.
3. Reasonably easy to implement quite quickly.

Disadvantages are:
1. When "Split" is enabled, it is not possible to use "CutOff".
2. When "Split" is enabled, it is not possible to use Alternative or Pressroll notes.
3. Two layers only.

What do you think?

[ignotus]

Sounds fantastic to me!

I can't speak for others, but regarding the disadvantages:

1. When "Split" is enabled, it is not possible to use "CutOff".
Maybe I haven't thought it through properly, but I'd say the use of one function would rule out any need of the other anyway - when you want light hits to trigger something, "CutOff" would make it unnecessarily complicated.

2. When "Split" is enabled, it is not possible to use Alternative or Pressroll notes.
I can live with that. As in above, my guess is that when you're using the "Split" function, these other ones are probably not that important.

3. Two layers only.
As was discussed, I think any more layers would be too many to be actually usable.

And as for the advantages, it looks like a very elegant solution!

[airflamesred]

What are the implications of the curve having a low value of 0? The split is fine but the layer, for me, is perhaps more important.

[dmitri]

What are the implications of the curve having a low value of 0? The split is fine but the layer, for me, is perhaps more important.

I'm not sure I understand your concerns. Can you expand on both?

[mbira]

I'm not really understanding why to handle this in megadrum and not just in the PC? This is already very common in many samplers.

[airflamesred]

Wiring the piezo to 2 inputs and then control everything via the velocity curves.
Option 1
Curve 1 = normal linear
Curve 2 = P1 to P4=0
P4 to P9 a steep linear. This gives a layered effect where the second note adds, as velocity increases.

Option 2
Curve 1 = P1 to P4 a steep linear
P5 to P9=0
Curve 2 = P1 to P4=0
P4 to P9 a steep linear. This gives the second note instead of the first as velocity increases.

This is a basic example but clearly gives many options.
I'd like to keep the alt note feature for use with L/R articulations.