Problem setting MD parameters

[dmitri]

Also, when toggling AltFalseTrSupp don't you forget the follow my suggestion?

2. Introduced an alternative false triggering suppression algorithm. It can be enabled if 'AltFalseTrSupp' set to Yes in the menu. With this algorithm you may want to decrease 'Retrigger' by 2-4 and DynLvl by 1-2 compared to what you usually set them to.

[gastric]

In my quick test I turned Retrigger/DynLevel/DynTime to their absolute lowest settings. I'm referring to the actual settings in MD, not the lowest settings for my trigger/pad. I expected doing that that would allow MD to trigger the maximum possible amount of hits, including a ton of unwanted double/ghost triggers. Is that a reasonable expectation?

[dmitri]

My experience is only with the Alesis Trigger IO. And with that module I would have to increase Retrigger significantly to eliminate double/ghost triggering.

So, did you find a perfect balance between double/ghost triggering and fast rolls with Alesis Trigger IO and your pads? Am I right that you cannot find the same balance with MegaDrum?

My experience is only with the Alesis Trigger IO

Good. In this case, when making 'free bouncing' and 'rlrl' recordings with MegaDrum, please make a 'measure' recording with Alesis Trigger IO using best settings you found on it.

[dmitri]

In my quick test I turned Retrigger/DynLevel/DynTime to their absolute lowest settings. I'm referring to the actual settings in MD, not the lowest settings for my trigger/pad. I expected doing that that would allow MD to trigger the maximum possible amount of hits, including a ton of unwanted double/ghost triggers. Is that a reasonable expectation?

It is. To be absolutely sure what I' looking at, please make 2 separate recordings ('free bouncing' and 'rlrl') with XTalk set to 0, Rettriger to 1, DynLevel to 0 and DynTime to 8. List all other settings. Point me to an abnormality in the recording so that I knew what I should listen to.

[gastric]

My experience is only with the Alesis Trigger IO. And with that module I would have to increase Retrigger significantly to eliminate double/ghost triggering.

So, did you find a perfect balance between double/ghost triggering and fast rolls with Alesis Trigger IO and your pads? Am I right that you cannot find the same balance with MegaDrum?

No. To retain playability on the snare I had to endure low-velocity ghost triggers. And my 14" toms suffered serious playability issues due to high retrigger settings.

I'm not comfortable stating with any definitiveness at this point that one module performs better than the other. Which is why I didn't mention the Trigger IO in my first posts.

My goal with MD was to acheive overall better trigger/pad performance with the hope it would magically have better double/ghost triggering filters. Note the word "magically". You might be onto something with the new Alt feature as it really does instantly cure single-hit double/ghost triggers. And I'm in LOVE with the HH pedal/trigger features. It's everything the IO isn't in that regard.

OK, back to work for me. You'll have to wait until at least late tonight Eastern Time before I can provide any additional meaningful information.

[dmitri]

I can tell you honestly - MegaDrum cannot do magic. As far as I know with good single zone or piezo/piezo dual zone pads Alesis Trigger IO works very well. If it doesn't, there must be something wrong with pads.

[gastric]

I can tell you honestly - MegaDrum cannot do magic. As far as I know with good single zone or piezo/piezo dual zone pads Alesis Trigger IO works very well. If it doesn't, there must be something wrong with pads.

FALSE ADVERTISING! I'm sure I read somewhere on this site where you claimed MAGIC!

Yeah, here it is. I KNEW IT!!! Haha.

Changes in 20090504 version:
1. Added adjustable 'Open Level' and 'Closed Level' for HH pedal.
2. Added 'Short Chick Level' (Threshold) and 'Long Chick Level' (Threshold) for HH pedal.
3. Added MAGIC!

[Rubis]

Why would that be in the change log? Wasn't the magic there before?

[gastric]

Here's the data I managed to produce this evening.

General comments/setup:

• Trigger/Pad: 14" steel Pearl snare, crossbar-and-cone, Roland 2-ply mesh head.
• I specifically disabled the rim zone and set DualHead=No to theoretically isolate the head only in these tests.
• Based on the fact I'm reaching maximum MIDI velocity at GAIN=0 and HighLevel=1022 I would agree with anyone that would challenge me by saying this is a hot pad. Though I do have to purposely hit the pad very hard to reach maximum velocity. But as I said previously I have not addressed any "hot" pads at this time, but do plan to.

Onto the actual data and screenshots.

• MD Settings all as pictured in MCT screenshot, AltFalseTrig = OFF
• Note: Single hit generates so much double/ghost triggers the original hit pans off the screen

• MD Settings all as pictured in MCT screenshot, AltFalseTrig = OFF
• Note: This appears to be minimum settings to eliminate what appears to be all of the double/ghost triggers, at least on single, slow hits. Set Retrigger = 5 and I get at least one very low velocity ghost trigger per hit. Same with lowering the DynLevel. I noted that DynTime has to be set at the maximum to generate any significant effect. The three low velocity triggers in the beginning are actually the last three triggers (which were ghost triggers) registered in the previous screenshot. Each of the high velocity triggers were actual hits properly registered as single triggers.

• MD Settings all as pictured in MCT screenshot, AltFalseTrig = ON
• Note: Illustrates the success of AltFalseTrig even with the absolute minimum other settings.There are still ghost triggers, however there are only 4 per hit instead of a dozen or more. I didn't have time to try, but I'm sure they could be tuned out with minor Retrigger/DynLevel/DynTime settings.

I did generate a variety of audio recordings playing against each of the settings above. Playing includes slow, medium, fast, and my attempt at some buzz rolls. I even managed to record my raw hits on the snare with a SM57 positioned right near the piezo where I was hitting, panned that to the left channel, and recorded the VST output panned to the right. Provides an excellent way to be able to audibly tell which hits are registering and which aren't. It's not quite as easy to hear the ghost triggering, but it does come through in the audio as a "reverb" sound. Unfortunately you'll have to wait until sometim Wed for the audio as it's been a long time since I did any actual recording and somehow managed to record each of the three as separate takes and couldn't quickly figure out out to manage rendering the takes correctly.

[dmitri]

With DynLevel set to 0 and DynTime set to 8 you get just the type of triggering I was expecting - lots of ghost notes.
The fact that even when you set DynLevel/DynTime to 6/64 and still get regular ghost notes means that your pads produce not very clean signal - too much 'after hit' vibration. Trying to eliminate this ghost notes by raising Rettrigger/DynLevel will hurt 'fast rolls'. Raising Threshold will help eliminate ghost notes without hurting 'fast rolls' but the sensitivity obviously will suffer.