Hihat - dynamic chick - firmware testing

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Re: Hihat - dynamic chick - firmware testing

Postby gabriel1712 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:46 am

dmitri wrote:I doesn't seem to me that he has the same issue if at all. You were getting these ghost notes even without "soft chicks" implemented purely because MegaDrum registered the pedal position jumping to fully pressed position. Remember the MIDI-OX output you posted showing CC messages indicating exactly this?


Aye, but I can also post screens that shows double-chicks being produced, when the value is nowhere near 127. If the CC value is greater than 50 and the CC build-up reverse, even a tiny bit and just for one value, it pulls a chick (eg. 1-12-32-68-67-75-127 will make a double chick).

But let's no go deep into it now. I'll make a thorough post with screens and thoughts later.
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Re: Hihat - dynamic chick - firmware testing

Postby dmitri » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:04 pm

gabriel1712 wrote:
dmitri wrote:I doesn't seem to me that he has the same issue if at all. You were getting these ghost notes even without "soft chicks" implemented purely because MegaDrum registered the pedal position jumping to fully pressed position. Remember the MIDI-OX output you posted showing CC messages indicating exactly this?


Aye, but I can also post screens that shows double-chicks being produced, when the value is nowhere near 127. If the CC value is greater than 50 and the CC build-up reverse, even a tiny bit and just for one value, it pulls a chick (eg. 1-12-32-68-67-75-127 will make a double chick).

Exactly. This is why I said it is a different thing - "soft chick". It will only happen if you press the pedal slowly and inconsistently. I can add an option to block a "proper chick" after a "soft chick" if they happen close together in time.
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Re: Hihat - dynamic chick - firmware testing

Postby gabriel1712 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:23 pm

dmitri wrote:Exactly. This is why I said it is a different thing - "soft chick". It will only happen if you press the pedal slowly and inconsistently.

Right, I see your point

I can add an option to block a "proper chick" after a "soft chick" if they happen close together in time

I found playing with several options can enhance or reduce the problem so, I think I'll spend some more time chewing the numbers.

What puzzles me is the cause... I can rule out the HH-controller since I've tested two different.
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Re: Hihat - dynamic chick - firmware testing

Postby dmitri » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:44 pm

gabriel1712 wrote:
dmitri wrote:Exactly. This is why I said it is a different thing - "soft chick". It will only happen if you press the pedal slowly and inconsistently.

Right, I see your point

I can add an option to block a "proper chick" after a "soft chick" if they happen close together in time

I found playing with several options can enhance or reduce the problem so, I think I'll spend some more time chewing the numbers.

What puzzles me is the cause... I can rule out the HH-controller since I've tested two different.

In some way MegaDrum is a voltmeter. Either it is reading values correctly and registers out of order voltage drops, in which case the pedal is to blame, or it is reading values incorrectly when there are no out of order voltages drop, in which case MegaDrum is to blame.
To find out which case it is out of two I can suggest to verify it using a proper voltmeter or better yet using an oscilloscope.
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Re: Hihat - dynamic chick - firmware testing

Postby gabriel1712 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:24 pm

dmitri wrote:In some way MegaDrum is a voltmeter. Either it is reading values correctly and registers out of order voltage drops, in which case the pedal is to blame, or it is reading values incorrectly when there are no out of order voltages drop, in which case MegaDrum is to blame.
To find out which case it is out of two I can suggest to verify it using a proper voltmeter or better yet using an oscilloscope.


I experience some electronic xtalk (eg. snare xtalk on different pads thou the snare is in a physically isolate snare basket) and Kick, SnareH, Tom1R and Tom2R is triggered by turning on the light+fan in the toilet. I'm thinking it may be related, but then again I know little to nothing about electronics.

I'll try to dig up an oscilloscope.

Till then, what should I measure, using the voltmeter?
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Re: Hihat - dynamic chick - firmware testing

Postby dmitri » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:32 pm

gabriel1712 wrote:
dmitri wrote:In some way MegaDrum is a voltmeter. Either it is reading values correctly and registers out of order voltage drops, in which case the pedal is to blame, or it is reading values incorrectly when there are no out of order voltages drop, in which case MegaDrum is to blame.
To find out which case it is out of two I can suggest to verify it using a proper voltmeter or better yet using an oscilloscope.


I experience some electronic xtalk (eg. snare xtalk on different pads thou the snare is in a physically isolate snare basket) and Kick, SnareH, Tom1R and Tom2R is triggered by turning on the light+fan in the toilet. I'm thinking it may be related, but then again I know little to nothing about electronics.

I'll try to dig up an oscilloscope.

Till then, what should I measure, using the voltmeter?

Voltage on the Pedal input while pressing and depressing the pedal and whatching for a voltage drop when CC jumps to 127 somewhere in the middle position.
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Re: Hihat - dynamic chick - firmware testing

Postby kimouette » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:23 am

I can add an option to block a "proper chick" after a "soft chick" if they happen close together in time.

Has this option already been implemented in one of the recent firmware update?

I occasionnaly get some very clear loud ghost chicks. I insist on the word "occasionnaly".
Since I'm using an internal optical controller I am physically limited to a certain distance between my 2 hats. The setting I currently use is almost perfect, except for those occasionnal ghost chicks.
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Re: Hihat - dynamic chick - firmware testing

Postby dmitri » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:32 am

kimouette wrote:
I can add an option to block a "proper chick" after a "soft chick" if they happen close together in time.

Has this option already been implemented in one of the recent firmware update?

I occasionnaly get some very clear loud ghost chicks. I insist on the word "occasionnaly".
Since I'm using an internal optical controller I am physically limited to a certain distance between my 2 hats. The setting I currently use is almost perfect, except for those occasionnal ghost chicks.

Not yet. Will add it in the next firmware.
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Re: Hihat - dynamic chick - firmware testing

Postby gabriel1712 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:44 am

Please upload a MIDI-OX screen showing both the ghost chick and the 'real' chick from fully open to closed, Kim.

What I found is two different kinds of ghost chicks situations:

1) The 'freak'-chick where the CC-values goes from mid-range (60-80) to near max, out of the blue.
Sounds like Kim is having these, because they are very loud.
I've found a way to fiddle the setting that seems to eliminate 'freak'-chick. Mainly raising the pedal Lowlvl to 80 or above, thus strangely decreasing the precision. My LowLvl-HighLvl field is currently just 80-159 but it's now hard for me to provoke a 'freak'-chick. Try it out.

2) The 'roll-back' chick is where the CC-values on a consistently depressed pedal, roll-back backwards a tiny bit(eg. 1-14-35-43-54-67-65-70-86-98-113-127).
That will produce two chick. A soft chick followed by normal chick.
When I hold my pedal still in any depressed position my CC-values flickes 1-10 point. (eg. 51-54-52-56-55-51-etc.) I guess/hope this is normal. So at medium to low speed depression, 'roll-backs' are bound to occur, when a random 'forward-flick' followed by a random 'backward-flick' overtakes the speed of closing.

To provoke the 'roll-back' chick, you need to do a medium speed closing with a soft landing (keep the heel down).

I can add an option to block a "proper chick" after a "soft chick" if they happen close together in time.
NoooOOoooo, please noooooo... This option would to my best understanding cut away the healthy part! In both cases. The soft chick is the problem, not the proper.

I hope, I can confirm a setting-strategy to eliminate the 'freak'-chick altogether.

90% of the 'roll-back' chick could be countered if there was a ChickDelay to soft chick, like there is to splash. But ofcause the 'roll-back' chick needs to be validated as a comon problem and not just special feature of my MD.

I'll post more on the topic (screens incl), whenever I get a few hours to spare.
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Re: Hihat - dynamic chick - firmware testing

Postby rockdude » Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:30 pm

I just glanced through this very interesting thread since I've started to fiddle with my DIY hall effect hihat controller. Nice to see how the hihat pedal options have evolved!
Was this thread continued anywhere else or did you drop further testing gabriel1712? You sure did put a lot of good information in dmitris hands so he could develop MD hihat.
Did you find a way to eliminate the 'freak'-chick and the the 'roll-back' chick?

I tried my pedal with Superior Drummer 2 with the Avatar library and managed to get a fairly consistent chick sound. Some double triggering here and there. I never saw any splash note being triggered in MIDI-OX though when I played. Strangely enough it sounded like a splash sound when I made a fast pedal down and release, but there were now sign of a splash note being triggered in MIDI-OX..just the chick note. I tried changing ChickDelay above 0, but no splash note triggered.

It seems like I can trigger a chick sound around CC60 if moving the pedal fairly quick. When moving it very slow it doesn't trigger around CC60.
I'll try it more in depth and post some screenshots and settings when I have more time.
(I have softchick turned off btw)
Last edited by rockdude on Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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