Need advice on DIY drum module. Megadrum vs arduino clone??

[indstr]

Sorry, I didn't really have enough room in the title to fully explain.

Basically, I am considering building a simpler-circuit drum module based on the "leaf maple" microcontroller board which is arduino compatible.

I would like to have a Megadrum, but there are 2 things prohibiting me from building one:

1) Price. Even though it is less expensive than other modules with comparable specs, the price is a little steep for me at the moment. (For Synthex's all in one kit or even less attainable for me is one built by dmitri himself) I can probably scrounge up enough money if necessary, but I would prefer to try to do this for less. (and be successful, and rejoice, yada yada yada). I do not feel confident at all in my ability to etch my own pcb or some such method to save money -- I am an electronics beginner.

2) I don't feel confident enough in my soldering capabilities to think that I would be able to assemble this thing. Also I emailed synthex about a week ago and haven't heard back from him. (Although I had some correspondence with him earlier last year, I still wasn't sure if Megadrum was right for me at the time)


So.. My idea right now is to build a simpler module based on the arduino compatible leaf maple, which is actually quite a bit more powerful clockspeed wise than arduino -- http://leaflabs.com/devices/maple/

Or to save even more money, possibly some other STM32 board like this:
http://www.futurlec.com/ET-STM32_Stamp.shtml
In conjunction with Xduino - http://www.xduino.com/download/ - which can apparently compile arduino code for the STM32

The advice I need is:

Is there some reason that this type of setup would be inferior to Megadrum? (Other than user interface). Talk me out of this idea if you can. If it is going to suck, I need to know now before I waste time and money.

I am fully aware the user interface won't be as nice as megadrum. However I don't mind going the extra steps to plug it into the PC, editing a couple of lines of code & flashing the firmware if I need to change settings. It still seems a lot easier and more economical than having a separate LCD on the board. Plus, once I get the initial setup done, I shouldn't need to be editing things very often. Once it's sending MIDI to the PC, if I need to remap drum sounds, that can all be done on the software end anyway.

The software I plan on running on the maple leaf will likely be a derivative of Tom Scarff's code here: http://tomscarff.110mb.com/midi_16drums ... 6drums.htm (modified for more analog inputs)

I've also done my research on Piezo filtering so I plan on building filters similar to this:
http://leucos.lstilde.org/wp/2009/06/pi ... ditioning/
in order to avoid the dreaded multiple-hit register problem.

And finally, I wasn't sure if the software itself would be able to adjust the sensitivity settings of drum pads... I assumed not, so I found on the Drum Master site that he used potentiometers to allow sensitivity adjustments.


So.... Is this reasonable? Will it work well? If I don't need a "nice interface", can I skimp on parts and price and still have this work? Or will I encounter problems such as unexplained electronic crosstalk between pads that aren't even mechanically crosstalking?

I don't know a lot about electronics, although I am trying to learn. What is it that is significant about Megadrum, edrum, and Drum Master that makes them superior to a more bare bones layout that is simply filtered triggers straight into a microcontroller development board?

I'm just a poor drummer who also needs to get this thing right... Even if I could afford a commercial module, I've looked into alesis trigger io or a used DM5 and they just don't offer enough expandability for my future drum setup/instrument plans.

So how about it? Is this feasible or just a pipe dream?

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks

[Firelord]

I currently believe that there is no such thing as wasting time/money. Any significant effort will be rewarded sooner or later. There are three main ingredients to success:

1. Strong desire
2. Dedication
3. A lot of work

One point though. If you decide to go with the Arduino clone we will not be able to help you here, because this is the MegaDrum support forum after all.

[jman 31]

There is no reason why you can't do it yourself with any number of options. HERE is a guy that has gone pretty crazy with the arduino, but by the time you buy all the muxers and other parts, you probably could build a megadrum. One thing you have to keep in mind is the options that you get with the MD. The wide range of adjust-ability would be hard to replicate without a tremendous amount of time involved. If your time is worth anything to you, you would quickly have more invested in it than the price of one of Dmitri's modules or a commercial module. The Alesis I/O is only a couple of hundred US dollars, which I think would be very hard to compete with if I consider my time worth anything.

If you keep it all very simple, Tom Skarffs miduinos are a very economical way to go. HERE is a very simple Arduino setup that someone did that would also be pretty easy. What you want out of your end result though and how much time you want to invest will be the determining factor in my mind. I usually don't consider my time or the money invested though. I look at fun factor of the build! If you want a serious drum module then go with MD or a commercial version. If you want to enjoy the build and learn a bunch then go the full DIY route with an Aduino or clone.

Hope that helps, sorry if it was a bit rambling.
J

[indstr]

HERE is a guy that has gone pretty crazy with the arduino, but by the time you buy all the muxers and other parts, you probably could build a megadrum. One thing you have to keep in mind is the options that you get with the MD. The wide range of adjust-ability would be hard to replicate without a tremendous amount of time involved.

Went to that link (Microdrum). I'm really really impressed by his design! He's kept the hardware as minimal as possible, and instead of an onboard configuration solution, he's made a really nice and well thought out software configuration tool, which even has other neat stuff such as a built in vst host!

I looked at his list of parts. It's all very inexpensive. Way less than megadrum! Especially considering you can assemble it on a protoboard.

Very elegant. I'm loving it. Farewell Megadrum, I'm off to greener (and cheaper) pastures!

[kupooglop]

I remember when I was in your position. I was thinking about the same questions you have. The main thing that convinced me to build the Megadrum was the forum. The people here really use their Megadrums. They build them, they use them, and the things work. I was looking at your links, and they appear to involve a lot of re-inventing the wheel. Dmitri pretty much gives you the functionality in one package for the cost of that bootloader encoded Atmega chip. The other solutions don't appear to be as "complete" as the Megadrum, so one will have to figure out what is missing and add it just to get something that is useful for more than just skeleton functionality. The second thing that convinced me is the number of inputs Megadrum provides. Compare Megadrums input count to any commercial unit and, well I don't really need to say any more. In conclusion, if you feel the following way:

I'm just a poor drummer who also needs to get this thing right...

Consider the fact that you get what you pay for. This goes for time invested as well as money invested. The best thing about Megadrum is that you get a lot of quality time put in by Dmitri to make it work. I would run my Megadrum against any commercial unit any day of the week. The bonus is that my Megadrum supports more inputs than most! Plus, If I need more inputs in the future, I know how to build them. Plus I think the time spent figuring out how to make pcb's was well worth it. Finally, this forum has all the information needed to take a pile of electronic components and put them together to form a working Megadrum. That is from my personal experience.

Whatever path you take, best of luck. Since it sounds like you are not interested in buying a prefab commercial setup, your life should get interesting...

Oh yea, I just read the link about filtering the piezos. I guess I better add some more bat85's to my diy triggers before they blow up my Atmega!

[indstr]

The main thing that convinced me to build the Megadrum was the forum. The people here really use their Megadrums.

Microdrum has a forum too... Although not as active, the developer and a couple of other people have completed modules and I think they will be able to help me. Plus, since it's such a new project, I will be getting in on the ground floor, so to speak... His software really is an elegant solution to minimize the cost. It eliminates the need for the LCD or the buttons on the module to change settings directly. Instead he's got a very robust software app that not only can configure the drums, (and a very nice looking status page that shows the wavforms of each input directly so you can fine tune threshold/retrig settings and such!), but also a built in vst host and sfv player! -- Pretty advanced considering he's only released it 3 or 4 months ago. It's very impressive for the software to be so advanced even at this early stage. Think of what kind of future possibilities he may be dreaming up!

Not to mention I'd rather look at a PC monitor than a 2" LCD any day. Plus he is working on using the true USB support of newer Arduino boards to send MIDI over USB... Eliminating the need for even a MIDI --> USB cable (or the clunky serial --> USB driver interface).

So for many reasons, this is the obvious way to go, for me at least..

Thank you all for your help though... Especially jman 31 for the link to microdrum. Without that I may not have found it!

[dmitri]

I couldn't leave it without my comments.

The main thing that convinced me to build the Megadrum was the forum. The people here really use their Megadrums.

Microdrum has a forum too... Although not as active, the developer and a couple of other people have completed modules and I think they will be able to help me. Plus, since it's such a new project, I will be getting in on the ground floor, so to speak... His software really is an elegant solution to minimize the cost.It eliminates the need for the LCD or the buttons on the module to change settings directly. Instead he's got a very robust software app that not only can configure the drums, (and a very nice looking status page that shows the wavforms of each input directly so you can fine tune threshold/retrig settings and such!), but also a built in vst host and sfv player! -- Pretty advanced considering he's only released it 3 or 4 months ago. It's very impressive for the software to be so advanced even at this early stage. Think of what kind of future possibilities he may be dreaming up!

You state it because you already tested "an elegant solution" with your microDRUM I believe.
You state it because MegaDrum cannot be controlled without LCD. Hint - see MegaDrum Manager (and MegaDrum ConfigTool before it).
"the wavforms of each input directly so you can fine tune threshold/retrig settings and such!" - you obviously know more than actually can be judged from running the software.

Not to mention I'd rather look at a PC monitor than a 2" LCD any day. Plus he is working on using the true USB support of newer Arduino boards to send MIDI over USB... Eliminating the need for even a MIDI --> USB cable (or the clunky serial --> USB driver interface).

What? Still no MIDI over USB? They (or you?) can take ideas from viewtopic.php?f=3&t=702

So for many reasons, this is the obvious way to go, for me at least..

Yes, for you it is obvious.

And all of the above without mentioning a proven usability for actual drumming. After all, it doesn't look you are after saving money and time.

[jman 31]

The main thing that convinced me to build the Megadrum was the forum. The people here really use their Megadrums.

Microdrum has a forum too... Although not as active, the developer and a couple of other people have completed modules and I think they will be able to help me. Plus, since it's such a new project, I will be getting in on the ground floor, so to speak... His software really is an elegant solution to minimize the cost. It eliminates the need for the LCD or the buttons on the module to change settings directly. Instead he's got a very robust software app that not only can configure the drums, (and a very nice looking status page that shows the wavforms of each input directly so you can fine tune threshold/retrig settings and such!), but also a built in vst host and sfv player! -- Pretty advanced considering he's only released it 3 or 4 months ago. It's very impressive for the software to be so advanced even at this early stage. Think of what kind of future possibilities he may be dreaming up!

Not to mention I'd rather look at a PC monitor than a 2" LCD any day. Plus he is working on using the true USB support of newer Arduino boards to send MIDI over USB... Eliminating the need for even a MIDI --> USB cable (or the clunky serial --> USB driver interface).

So for many reasons, this is the obvious way to go, for me at least..

Thank you all for your help though... Especially jman 31 for the link to microdrum. Without that I may not have found it!

I won't try to convince you differently, but I also don't think that you are comparing apples to apples as I said before. I only pointed out microdrum to you to show some of the other options. Dmitri's megadrum is as good as if not better than any Midi I/O that you can buy. I don't know anything about the microdrum and it's functionality, but I do know that the Megadrum has excellent support, lots and lots of features, constant updates and improvements and has stood the test of time.

Personally I like the " 2" LCD ". much easier in my opinion for making slight tweaks in the field and it gives you another method of interface directly on the unit itself. Plus it ups the cool factor!

Do what you want as far as what your final choice is, but I remind you that are dealing with two different levels of product so don't be to disappointed if it doesn't live up to your expectations. I get nothing from Megadrum so I am only stating this stuff as an impartial observer and I am in no way trying to belittle what the maker of the microdrum has accomplished.

J

[indstr]

And all of the above without mentioning a proven usability for actual drumming. After all, it doesn't look you are after saving money and time.

Wow.... Wasn't expecting this. But whatever.
It does appear that the creator of microdrum himself uses it, as well as several other people who have successfully built one.

I wasn't trying to dog Megadrum at all. I think it's a great project. The only reason I created this thread is because I am an electronics noob and I really honestly do not think that I could assemble a Megadrum without screwing it up. I'm not saying that microdrum is better than Megadrum, (I don't know, I've never used either) just that it looks like a doable entry level project for me.

I had no idea I was going to get flamed by the creator of Megadrum?

Bit of an ego here Mr Dimitri?

Do what you want as far as what your final choice is, but I remind you that are dealing with two different levels of product so don't be to disappointed if it doesn't live up to your expectations.

Thanks for the reasonable advice jman, I really do appreciate it.

And I hope I'll still be welcome "around these here parts" in case I do need to ask for Megadrum related advice in the future for whatever reason.

I was not trying to cause a fight at all, just gather information for myself.

Peace
-Scott

[jman 31]

I don't think that Dmitri was trying to flame you man, he just doesn't have what you call the "people skills"! Just kidding Dmitri! I think he is just very passionate about his product and has put a lot of time an effort into making one of the coolest DIY projects on the internet. It was even cooler before some jackass decided to rip him off which is the reason for the encrypted chip that you have to get from him. Also very cool of him to keep on supplying it so we can still build this cool device.

I'm not even a drummer, but I love electronics and I am in and out of bands, so having a drum set on hand is important for me, especially one with all of the options that he has worked so hard to provide.

I'm sure that you are more than welcome to hang out here any time with Megadrum related stuff. I'm sure people would even help you with your microdrum if you asked nicely...

Enjoy your build and learn from it. Like Firelord said in his post "Any significant effort will be rewarded sooner or later"

Regards,
j