Does anyone have ANY luck w/ Roland pads (cymbals & drums)?!

[bcmusic]

I am using Megadrum to connect to Superior 2.0... which I usually use with a TD-8 brain... went with Megadrum for all the extra inputs and tweakability. My latency is totally fine (good soundcard), and Superior is set up just how I like it. Now, to my problems...

Roland PD-series pads are too "hot" for Megadrum... Dmitri says a voltage divider and/or trimpot needs to be built between the pad and the input. I don't know how to do any of that, but I guess I'll be learning very soon.

Does anyone have any luck with a good response from any of the following MESH pads and/or cymbal pads:
- PD-120 - PD-125 - PD-100 - PD-105 - CY5 - CY8

I seemed to have a LITTLE luck with the PD-120 as a snare, by setting the ComprLvl higher than zero (which no one has mentioned in the forums, why not?)... 2 or 3 seems to do the trick, so I don't always get maximum velocity when playing rolls or hitting the pad normally, like I would hit a snare (on beats 2 and 4, etc.). I also set the ComprLvl up from zero on my tom triggers (PS, these are not Roland pads... they are acoustic drums with mesh heads, running either ddrum Redshot external triggers, or Roland RT-10T triggers). Same with my bass drum, which runs either a Roland RT-10K, or a ddrum Redshot kick trigger.

I CANNOT get a fully realistic response no matter what I set.... I have gone through Megadrum's pad menu over and over, tweaking things... for ten hours straight. It seems so futile. Megadrum has a lot of promise but I am so far disappointed by all the tweaking that needs to be done for such a seemingly painless device.

I have searched and browsed these forums up and down and can't seem to find anyone who uses Roland pads, or hell, even Hart or Pintech or Yamaha pads... are all mesh pads hopeless, and the hardest to get a realistic response out of?

It seems like all Megadrum users use DIY pads with the Roland-style cone assembly, mounted inside an acoustic drum, with mesh heads.

I have a very similar setup, but using external triggers instead for my kick, floor tom, and rack tom (mounted on a separate snare stand), these external triggers allow me to set the them how I want, against the heads.... with the piezo/cone pushed in, or barely touching the mesh. No matter how I set the triggers, the response is, to put it nicely, unfavorable.

The problems I constantly get are:

- uneven velocities / hits (this is the MAIN issue here)... I have been drumming for over 10 years and I have great stick control. A simple 16th-note pattern at 140bpm on any of the drums (the PD-120 or my acoustic/externally triggered drums) creates velocities that are all over the place... too soft to too loud... just completely inconsistent. I have gone through all the major settings (Retrigger / Threshold / Gain / HighLevel / DynLevel / DynTime... etc. etc..... and although I have a SOMEWHAT playable kit... it's far from as accurate as I want (and already had with my TD-8). The reason I bought a Megadrum is for the extra inputs and 3-way cymbal triggering.... but I can't even get THAT to work!
- false triggering (from the mesh head vibration) and yes, I've done all the tweaks Dmitri suggested, except building the voltage divider or trimpot... it's not as bad as it was when I first plugged Megadrum in, but it's still nowhere close to how well it SHOULD be responding...
- 3-way triggering with a Yamaha PCY135 as a ride cymbal. I have followed every direction from every forum post and canNOT get this to work! No matter what, I get 2 zones only. And I know I've set everything right. Or have I? I enabled "3-Zone" in the pad settings, and have everything set, different midi notes and all. I can't understand why I can't get 3 zones.
- CY-8 issue Here's a strange problem.... for some dumb reason, I can't get one of my CY8s to give me dual-zones, but I get dual-zones with the other CY-8... EXACT same settings! It makes no sense!

One good thing I got to work was my FD7 / CY5 hi-hat combo.... I got the full range of hi-hat pedal up/down in Superior 2.0, fully open and closed. But everything else is driving me crazy.

Someone please help before I pull my hair out.... I don't have a lot of time to work with Megadrum after today, at least for 3 days, but I would appreciate ANY and ALL help..... I cannot be the only person out there using a combination of Roland, Yamaha, and external triggers... am I?

Thank you for any and all help... and big thanks to Dmitri as he is usually the first one to respond to everyone's topic.

-Chris

[Firelord]

uneven velocities / hits

I can only tell you that you're not the only person to experience this. A big discussion had taken place in the Russian part of this forum leading to no ultimate solution for the problem. Using additional input filters and/or a peak detection opamp based circuit might help, but this has not yet been proven to be a reliable solution for MegaDrum.

I have simple DIY pads built from rubber and a piece of plywood with a piezo glued to it. Same problem. Uneven velocities. Unfortunately, I don't have enough time now to deal with this now. I attempted to build a peak detection circuit but made an error somewhere and it did not work.

[dmitri]

- uneven velocities / hits (this is the MAIN issue here)... I have been drumming for over 10 years and I have great stick control. A simple 16th-note pattern at 140bpm on any of the drums (the PD-120 or my acoustic/externally triggered drums) creates velocities that are all over the place... too soft to too loud... just completely inconsistent. I have gone through all the major settings (Retrigger / Threshold / Gain / HighLevel / DynLevel / DynTime... etc. etc..... and although I have a SOMEWHAT playable kit... it's far from as accurate as I want (and already had with my TD-8). The reason I bought a Megadrum is for the extra inputs and 3-way cymbal triggering.... but I can't even get THAT to work!

Until a hot pad is cooled down, you will be getting uneven velocities. The reason for this is that MegaDrum is left to work with only small part of the signal voltage range. Even slightest variations in the hits strength will case big voltage difference in this small part of signal range MegaDrum is able to see.

- false triggering (from the mesh head vibration) and yes, I've done all the tweaks Dmitri suggested, except building the voltage divider or trimpot... it's not as bad as it was when I first plugged Megadrum in, but it's still nowhere close to how well it SHOULD be responding...

Again, being too hot makes a pad too sensitive and subsequently more susceptible to false triggering.

- 3-way triggering with a Yamaha PCY135 as a ride cymbal. I have followed every direction from every forum post and canNOT get this to work! No matter what, I get 2 zones only. And I know I've set everything right. Or have I? I enabled "3-Zone" in the pad settings, and have everything set, different midi notes and all. I can't understand why I can't get 3 zones.

You need to read http://www.megadrum.info/content/pads-settings about the "DualHead" setting. For 3 zone Yamaha style cymbals it must be set to "Yes".

- CY-8 issue Here's a strange problem.... for some dumb reason, I can't get one of my CY8s to give me dual-zones, but I get dual-zones with the other CY-8... EXACT same settings! It makes no sense!

Do you try two CY-8's in the same input or in two different inputs?
If in two different inputs, did you make sure that you set different Note's for the Bow and Edge on the CY-8 input? Did you try to adjust Threshold of Edge on the second CY-8 input?

[dmitri]

uneven velocities / hits

I can only tell you that you're not the only person to experience this. A big discussion had taken place in the Russian part of this forum leading to no ultimate solution for the problem. Using additional input filters and/or a peak detection opamp based circuit might help, but this has not yet been proven to be a reliable solution for MegaDrum.

I have simple DIY pads built from rubber and a piece of plywood with a piezo glued to it. Same problem. Uneven velocities. Unfortunately, I don't have enough time now to deal with this now. I attempted to build a peak detection circuit but made an error somewhere and it did not work.

If you have a problem with your pads, please don't make hasty conclusions/suggestions without knowing what might be causing it. Raise your problem in a separate topic and we will look at it together to find the cause and a right solution.

[dmitri]

Roland PD-series pads are too "hot" for Megadrum... Dmitri says a voltage divider and/or trimpot needs to be built between the pad and the input. I don't know how to do any of that, but I guess I'll be learning very soon.

Since you don't have any soldering experience, as "a one off" I will make one voltage divider box (or cable) and send it to you to try.
Certainly you will also need to understand all the pads settings to know what to tweak. Even with the voltage divider it is not going to be 'plug-n-play' - MegaDrum is not a magic box and wasn't designed and preconfigured to work with some particular brand of pads. I designed and tested it with my set of gear - Pintech snare and cymbal, Yamaha PCY135 (big thanks to r0bbie for donating one!), Yamaha PD-80s pad, Millenium cymbals, DIY mesh toms, DIY optical HH controller and DIY mesh kick. Unfortunately Roland pads are not in the list so I cannot test it myself and make tested suggestions.

[Firelord]

If you have a problem with your pads, please don't make hasty conclusions/suggestions without knowing what might be causing it.

All right.

[bcmusic]

That would be really nice of you Dmitri, and helpful! If I can test each signal with one of these boxes or cables, and if it gives me a much, much better, balanced response... then I'd be a very happy man. haha.

Tweaking I have no problem with... I just want to reach SOME kind of satisfactory result... something very playable and fun, mimicking what I played with my sticks as accurately as possible.

Do you still have my address? I look forward to receiving the cable or box (a cable would be even better, if it replaces the standard 1/4" TRS cable I am using for most of my pads).

THANKS, Dmitri!

-Chris

Since you don't have any soldering experience, as "a one off" I will make one voltage divider box (or cable) and send it to you to try.
Certainly you will also need to understand all the pads settings to know what to tweak. Even with the voltage divider it is not going to be 'plug-n-play' - MegaDrum is not a magic box and wasn't designed and preconfigured to work with some particular brand of pads. I designed and tested it with my set of gear - Pintech snare and cymbal, Yamaha PCY135 (big thanks to r0bbie for donating one!), Yamaha PD-80s pad, Millenium cymbals, DIY mesh toms, DIY optical HH controller and DIY mesh kick. Unfortunately Roland pads are not in the list so I cannot test it myself and make tested suggestions.

[bcmusic]

Yamaha PD-80s pad, Millenium cymbals, DIY mesh toms, DIY optical HH controller and DIY mesh kick. Unfortunately Roland pads are not in the list so I cannot test it myself and make tested suggestions.

By the way, you mentioned a Yamaha PD-80s pad... Roland made the PD-80, and PD-80R... do you have a picture of the Yamaha pad you used to test?

Helpful suggestion-- even though you didn't test the Megadrum with any Roland pads... it might be a good idea to eventually pick up or borrow some of the more commonly-used ones (older and newer models include PD-85, PD-80R, PD-100, PD-105, PD-120, PD-125, CY-8, CY-5, and the CY-12, CY-14, CY-15), and find the best settings for these pads, so the Megadrum can be greatly improved, as a universal trigger-to-midi interface for ALL makes and models, not just Yamaha, Pintech, and DIY stuff.

Thanks again!

[dmitri]

Yamaha PD-80s pad, Millenium cymbals, DIY mesh toms, DIY optical HH controller and DIY mesh kick. Unfortunately Roland pads are not in the list so I cannot test it myself and make tested suggestions.

By the way, you mentioned a Yamaha PD-80s pad... Roland made the PD-80, and PD-80R... do you have a picture of the Yamaha pad you used to test?

I misstyped, it is TP80S, an all rubber dual piezo/switch pad. If any, it is the Pintech pad which is anywhere similar - it is made on Roland's license dual piezo/piezo 10" mesh snare. And as I mentioned before it is not hot, with Gain 4 and HiLvlAuto set to Yes I get HighLevel in the 850-900 range.

Helpful suggestion-- even though you didn't test the Megadrum with any Roland pads... it might be a good idea to eventually pick up or borrow some of the more commonly-used ones (older and newer models include PD-85, PD-80R, PD-100, PD-105, PD-120, PD-125, CY-8, CY-5, and the CY-12, CY-14, CY-15), and find the best settings for these pads, so the Megadrum can be greatly improved, as a universal trigger-to-midi interface for ALL makes and models, not just Yamaha, Pintech, and DIY stuff.

I would certainly do it and buy all those pads if I were there for making profit.

[SBsoundguy]

Is this still a problem with Roland pads?