MegaDrum HiHat configuration for VST instruments

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MegaDrum HiHat configuration for VST instruments

Postby Trommeltotti » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:02 pm

Dear @dmitri,

since long time one post from me here. ;)

Since some days I try to optimize the HiHat settings from MegDrum for the VST instrument Toontrack Superior Drummer. And this seems to be not easy for me.

The facts:

Superior Drummer use for SDX "New York Studios" Library seven HiHat articulations each for Bow and Edge: (for Bell three articulations)

Tight Values from 126 to 127
Closed 120-125
Open (1) 90-119
Open (2) 60-89
Open (3) 30-59
Open (4) 8-29
Open (5) 1-7

Additional SD (Superior Drummer) offers two more articulations for HiHat:

Chick
Foot Splash

You can set the note numbers in MegaDrum for closed, semi-closed, half-open and semi-open and this means you can administer in MegaDrum four HiHat articulations. I'm right? This means you can not get the full range of HiHat articulations from VST instruments like SD.

Because SD do not need any information for different note numbers like semi/half open/closed and so on. To disable this notes numbers in MegaDrum to zero does not work with SD! Then there is still no HiHat sound in the instrument! SD needs just following note numbers:

Bow, Edge - if 3-way Hat - Bell, Chick and Foot Splash. All the additional articulations does SD administrate it self by default HiHat pedal CC messages #4# from values 1 to 127!

So I think the point is to optimize MegaDrum HiHat settings specially for VST instruments which comes with a lot of HiHat articulations, is a new option in one of the next firmware update to deactivate all Semi/half open/closed parameters but still sending the Bow/Edge and Bell note numbers and of course the HiHat pedal CC messages with full range from 0-127! Is this possible @dmitri? This would be very fine to use the MegaDrum with advanced HiHat features from VST instruments like SD.

Since some weeks I have another problem: When I use the HiHat foot pedal and MegaDrum is sending all the pedal CC messages to SD my host program crashes after a while! (never mind if Cubase or Toontrack Solo host) And also it blocks one audio track in my RME audio-interface! This is dramatically bad here! This is definitively the HiHat controller! If I use just the HiHat pad all other instruments or also a normal Midi keyboard I can trigger SD days along without crashing! My Idea is maybe that those CC messages which MegaDrum is sending are to much. I ask you this long time ago: Sound modules like ROLAND do have one option to reduce pedal cc messages when sending it via midi. (Maybe also for CC messages for positional sensing for snare) Probability with several steps as options for this to get different ways of reducing data. Could be also in general helpfully for improve midi timing at all.

Another idea is: SD use for pedal CC messages the values from 1-127 and not from 0-127! Maybe one additional option to set the value ranges of CC messages in MegaDrum would be helpful for this as well.

So @dmitri, thank you very much for your time and with best regards

Thorsten
Berlin
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Re: MegaDrum HiHat configuration for VST instruments

Postby dmitri » Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:36 pm

I will look into it.
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Re: MegaDrum HiHat configuration for VST instruments

Postby Trommeltotti » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:38 pm

Nice to here this :roll:

Thank you very much @dmitri greats

Thorsten
Berlin
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Re: MegaDrum HiHat configuration for VST instruments

Postby dmitri » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:29 am

Something to clarify.
Trommeltotti wrote:Because SD do not need any information for different note numbers like semi/half open/closed and so on. To disable this notes numbers in MegaDrum to zero does not work with SD! Then there is still no HiHat sound in the instrument! SD needs just following note numbers:

Bow, Edge - if 3-way Hat - Bell, Chick and Foot Splash. All the additional articulations does SD administrate it self by default HiHat pedal CC messages #4# from values 1 to 127!

Isn't setting BowSO/BowHO/BowSCL/BowCL equal to the Bow note, EdgeSO/EdgeHO/EdgeSCL/EdgeCL to the Edge note and BellSO/BellHO/BellSCL/BellCL to the Bell note a solution to that?
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Re: MegaDrum HiHat configuration for VST instruments

Postby Trommeltotti » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:33 pm

dmitri wrote:Isn't setting BowSO/BowHO/BowSCL/BowCL equal to the Bow note, EdgeSO/EdgeHO/EdgeSCL/EdgeCL to the Edge note and BellSO/BellHO/BellSCL/BellCL to the Bell note a solution to that?

This is exactly what I did!

With this settings you get in SD a range from full closed (tight articulation) until to full open (open 5 articulation) So possibly most of VST instrument users which use SD together with MegaDrum do not note this. But I think the problem is that SD (Superior Drummer) with activated BowSO/BowHO/BowSCL/BowCL equal to Bow note and so on for Edge and Bell settings is not able to produce all articulation delicacies in between the HiHat sound from full closed to fully open. As my description above SD use for realistic reproducing HiHat sounds seven articulations in between the pedal positions. Other VST Drum-instruments like bfd do supporting even more or equal articulations for HiHat.

To translate this different foot positions via CC messages in the right and practicable way from MegaDrum to a VST instrument like SD in real-time it would be the best way to send only one assigned midi note number for each HiHat zone together with needed cc #4# messages to get the full articulation range of each virtual VST instrument. Again modern virtual VST Drum instruments which supporting E-Drum triggering in real-time are handling incoming CC#4# messages for HiHat and CC#16# messages for positional sensing it self and do automatic assign this to a right articulation.

So what I think: With activated BowSO/BowHO/BowSCL/BowCL settings (also Edge/Bell) in MegaDrum VST instruments potentially are not able to translate correctly incoming CC messages for all supporting articulations inside the software.

That becomes my idea for a new feature in next firmware update. Means a new function to support perfectly all exist HiHat articulations on VST instruments in real-time. And Please remember: Different Virtual instruments uses different sizes of articulations for HiHat sounds! Some of them maybe seven articulations like SD some other maybe still more or less.

So one function which works independence for the outgoing BowSO/BowHO/BowSCL/BowCL (Also Edge/Bell) data and deactivate or "bridge" those note numbers could be a next step to improve MegaDrum to play with VST instruments.

And not forget please: A feature to reduce sending CC messages in different steps could also helpfully to optimize MegaDrum to "speak" or communicate with VST instruments.

Thanks very much with best regards

Thorsten
Berlin







And also I think to translate
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Re: MegaDrum HiHat configuration for VST instruments

Postby dmitri » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:46 pm

Trommeltotti wrote:
dmitri wrote:Isn't setting BowSO/BowHO/BowSCL/BowCL equal to the Bow note, EdgeSO/EdgeHO/EdgeSCL/EdgeCL to the Edge note and BellSO/BellHO/BellSCL/BellCL to the Bell note a solution to that?

This is exactly what I did!
...
To translate this different foot positions via CC messages in the right and practicable way from MegaDrum to a VST instrument like SD in real-time it would be the best way to send only one assigned midi note number for each HiHat zone together with needed cc #4# messages to get the full articulation range of each virtual VST instrument.

You've lost me. Setting BowSO/BowHO/BowSCL/BowCL equal to the Bow note (and same for other 2 zones) will make MegaDrum to send only one note per zone regardless of the pedal position. Based on a proceeding CC message a VST instrument will choose the right sound/articulation. So what functionality in MegaDrum you want to be added?

And not forget please: A feature to reduce sending CC messages in different steps could also helpfully to optimize MegaDrum to "speak" or communicate with VST instruments

I will look into it separately.
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Re: MegaDrum HiHat configuration for VST instruments

Postby Trommeltotti » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:57 pm

dmitri wrote:You've lost me. Setting BowSO/BowHO/BowSCL/BowCL equal to the Bow note (and same for other 2 zones) will make MegaDrum to send only one note per zone regardless of the pedal position. Based on a proceeding CC message a VST instrument will choose the right sound/articulation. So what functionality in MegaDrum you want to be added?

I will do check this later again.

dmitri wrote:I will into it separately.

Fine
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Re: MegaDrum HiHat configuration for VST instruments

Postby dmitri » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:10 pm

I added HiHat pedal CC messages reduction option in the latest firmware version.
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Re: MegaDrum HiHat configuration for VST instruments

Postby Trommeltotti » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:24 am

dmitri wrote:I added HiHat pedal CC messages reduction option in the latest firmware version.

Thanks @dmitri a lot!

This is just unbelievable extreme fast. I will say that most outside commercial companies should learning the word "supporting" in a new way. You should teach them all to show how this works! GREAT!

I will test this new feature as fast as possible for me!

Good night greats

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