Differentiating rim click from cross stick

[jackiecorn]

I have always wanted a way to fit as many expressions(articulations) as possible on a snare as its acoustic counterpart. We are currently able to get head with PS, rim, and rim shot, this works pretty well but it would be nice if we could find a way to differentiate rim clicks from cross sticks, just to squeeze in one more articulation without the need of an external hardware. I stumbled across some thread(http://www.megadrum.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1887) on adding a footswitch to switch between different articulations, to me this is not a good idea as it does not feel natural as playing the real thing. There were also suggestions to have velocity driven articulations, but then we could not get a full range of velocity for each articulation. So here's my take on to a possible solution:

To me, the main difference between rim clicks and cross sticks is the way that when playing cross sticks, we put our hand on the head of the drum while holding the stick and snapping it onto the rim. When a cross stick is performed, the hand on the head actually produces a small vibration to the head trigger, I suggest we could use this triggered signal to differentiate rim clicks from cross sticks.

Although the current rim shot articulation works similarly, by detecting a hit from both the head and the rim simultaneously, there is a difference between rim shots and cross sticks as well. When a rim shot is performed, a similar velocity level between the head and the rim is applied, I would say the difference is quite small compared to a cross stick shot. However the ratio of rim to head velocity between cross sticks is quite large, up to 10:1 or something like that.
So we could have a ratio setting of Rim Velocity:Head Velocity to tell what articulation is played.
eg: RV:HV<5=rim shot(it wouldn't make sense if one is higher than the other extremely for a single hit)
RV:HV>5=cross stick
The ratio should be adjustable to allow users to define the difference between rim shots and cross sticks. Tell me what you think:)

[dmitri]

As discussed in the thread you referenced - it is not possible to implement all of those articulations with full velocity range on the current types of pads.
There were a few ways suggested around this in that thread:

1. Simplest and one which doesn't require any firmware modifications. Add extra trigger devices close to a snare. E.g. one trigger device for crossticks and another for brushes.
2. Simple but will require firmware modifications. Add two switches on a snare. One switch, when kept pressed, modifies rim hits to produce crossticks. Another switch, when pressed once, switches to brush sounds, and when pressed again switches back to regular snare sounds.

[jackiecorn]

These 2 options are exactly the ones I wanted to stay away from, as they require external hardware outside the drum, or worse, require a change in playing style from playing acoustic drums.
The only way I could think of is by implementing a Rim:Head velocity ratio, but I don't know how well it will work in practice until the function is programmed into megadrum.
Actually if we could somehow make a pressure/touch sensitive switch under the snare head, option 2 would be a possible solution too.

[dmitri]

The only way I could think of is by implementing a Rim:Head velocity ratio, but I don't know how well it will work in practice until the function is programmed into megadrum.

From my knowledge of signals produced by pads I can say the detection with this method cannot be reliable.

[jackiecorn]

The only way I could think of is by implementing a Rim:Head velocity ratio, but I don't know how well it will work in practice until the function is programmed into megadrum.

From my knowledge of signals produced by pads I can say the detection with this method cannot be reliable.

If that's the case... I hope someone will come up with a better idea for detecting cross sticks soon!

[dmitri]

The only way I could think of is by implementing a Rim:Head velocity ratio, but I don't know how well it will work in practice until the function is programmed into megadrum.

From my knowledge of signals produced by pads I can say the detection with this method cannot be reliable.

If that's the case... I hope someone will come up with a better idea for detecting cross sticks soon!

All ideas are welcome!

[Maylord.war]

I think with a plug in MIDI filter installed on PC is possible to assign a Number note for thesholt values of velocity and another Number note for the other values.

For the cross stick you can try to add a small piezo on a Rim riser like this

http://www.rainbowguitars.com/imagespro ... -xl-01.jpg


I'm sure in this metod you can have all the four articulations ( head, rim click, rim shot, cross stick ), require only one Trs and on Mono jack of your Md set to piezo.

[jackiecorn]

Does anyone know how Yamaha pads have 3 zones? It has 2 regions on the rim that produces 2 different sound, so I believe it uses a switch in the rim. Perhaps we could build one of those rim switches on the "cross stick region", say the top right third of the rim to make it all work.
What kind/shape of the switch can be fitted into the rim rubber? I suppose the ones similarly used in cymbal edges wont work that well...

[Maylord.war]

The Yamaha pad like TP100 have 3 zone, is a piezo/switch/switch configuration.

[jackiecorn]

The Yamaha pad like TP100 have 3 zone, is a piezo/switch/switch configuration.

Exactly, I wonder if we can build one of those rim switches ourselves.