Franken-Kit 1.0

[shaugnd]

I've come across a great article on Roland gear. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_V-Drums There is a table about halfway through that lists all the Roland pads and their trigger configuration (Piezo, Piezo/Switch, Piezo/Piezo, etc). Quite a bit of good information here. I would add the following that I have discovered:

HD-1 Pads are not dual trigger. The HD-1 brain uses velocity sensing to emulate secondary triggering. So, for example, if you strike the pad with a force of 4 on a scale of 1 to 10, you get one sound, strike with a force of 8, and you get a different sample. So don't be confused, all of the pads on the HD-1 are single trigger, including the snare. Although the snare is the same as the PDX-8 in all other respects, it is only a single trigger unit. The toms are all single trigger as well and so are the cymbals even though they look just like CY-5's, they are not quite the same. Also, the pedals from the HD-1 do not use a piezo or switch trigger. Both the High Hat pedal and the Kick drum pedal are mechanically the same. It looks like some sort of film-resistor strip but I don't now much in this area. Anyone with thoughts or knowledge on that please chime in. I'm just trying to get as much information down as possible for anyone else who might have the same crazy ideas I do. (not likely, I know)

More later, stay tuned . . . .

[angr77]

Great post!

[shaugnd]

If you dig into the page on wikipedia, be sure to look for the "Show" links. I missed them the first time around, but they cause a table to drop down. In each case, the tables have fantastic detail information in them. Finally I understand what the heck the difference is between all the Pads that Roland has out.

[glenn.szymanski]

have you had any luck building the malletkat clone?

[shaugnd]

Well, sort of.

Unfortunately, the way my mind works, I go in a whole lot of directions at once. At present, I'm working on a fundamentally different sort of wind turbine for residential application (think, no props on a stick in your yard) which blends in somewhat seemlessly with your house. Also working on triggering light displays and computer generated visuals projected on screens when I'm playing so that I can do a one man show sort of thing. I have worked on the MegaMallet as I have come to call it. I've got all the triggering working just fine. Still messing around with materials and structural elements to get just the right setup. Right now, the prototype is a steam punk looking thing. I've connected a bunch of single gang (one plug space width) electrical boxes. Each box represents on key. I've arranged them like a piano, but you can arrange them however you like. Inside, the piezo switches are wrapped in foam. The striking surface, presently, is a quarter inch thick 2"x3" piece of plywood with a same size piece of quarter inch thick mouse pad glued on it. I like the mouse pad, because they are pretty cheap and the feel is fairly good. Each of the boxes is connected with EMT conduit connection pieces and the wiring is run through those connections. All the wiring goes into a single "snake" cable which breaks out into quarter inch male connectors on the other end to plug into the MegaDrum. I've used Native Instuments Complete 8, Addictive Drums, SSD, and a couple others with it and have had good success getting the basic triggering to work. Nuances are problematic right now though. To be fair, MalletKat is not very nuanced either. Once I get the positional and velocity sensing working it should be in good shape. I'd really like to be able to get some sort of pitch bend functionality.

Did you have some thoughts about improving the idea?

I'm trying to get it so that anyone could build it from parts available at any hardware store with a quick stop at radio shack for the switches and wiring.

[airflamesred]

I'd be interested in that Shaugnd. Any pics?

[shaugnd]

I've pulled it all apart to tweak some of the cabling and try a different material to wrap the switches in. I can post a pick of the prototype 'chassis'. It is just one octave for testing and what not. Eventual goal is to have 3 or four octaves. I'm also not sure if I should raise the sharps/flats like a marimba, or keep them flat like a vibraphone. I'll see if I can dig it out of the pile of stuff on my work bench and get a pic posted.

[shaugnd]

Ok, so here we are 2 years later. Major life distractions on my end, but if anyone is still around and interested, I'm going to forge ahead.

Present State of things:

Franken-Kit is now on rev. 3.0 and I like it very much. I've added a TD-12 brain along with the original HD-1 brain. The HD-1 brain controls all of the original HD-1 pads and pedals. I kept it around mostly because I really got attached to some of the kits' sounds. Everything else wires into the TD-12. I'm still using the HD-1 single trigger PDX-80 for the base drum as it works well and feels good, so why mess with it. I was using a PD-85 for the snare, but the strike surface was kind of small and that got annoying for some reason. I've done a conversion on a Slingerland 14" snare shell using a cone mounted piezo under a V-Drums 14" mesh head (which is intended for the V-Drums 14" kick drum, but I had other ideas!) and another piezo stuck to the shell to capture rim action. Now the PD-85 is used as an external dual trigger pad connected to the HPD-15. I've moved the toms around into a more standard four tom configuration and put the ride in the typical place.

MegaMalletRex is my new focus.

The good folks at BoschRexroth (http://www13.boschrexroth-us.com/Framing_Shop/Product/Default.aspx?units=1) have been kind enough to create a Tinker Toy or Erector Set for people like me. The slogan is "Everything to Build Anything". And it is pretty much true. When I saw that one person had built a house and someone else had built a bicycle, I figured I could build just about anything with it as well. Their website is fairly bad, but the product is good. The best part is that, even though it is fairly strong aluminum, it cuts easily with a cheap 10" compound miter saw that I've had for 10 years or so.

In all my efforts to build a viable MalletKat-like device, the form factor and chassis has always been a problem. Either it looked like crap or was awkward to move around or flimsy or too heavy or hard to mount in a kit or it just didn't hold up to real world playing scenarios and forces. Or, I'm just not good enough at the materials I was using. With the Rexroth framing, though, I think all that is finally sorted.

The HPD-15 still has an excellent sound library, so I'll use that for the brain to eliminate the need for a computer.

Over the next couple weeks I'll update the project here, with pictures and commentary for anyone else interested in it. This first prototype will have only one octave, but the nature of the framing makes for super easy expansion if the single octave turns out to be what I want. I've decided to go with a flat configuration like a vibraphone. Additionally there will be two striking surfaces that are control triggers. I'm thinking of using them to move the octave range up or down. Not sure how MegaDrum will handle that, but we shall see. Anyone with thoughts on that, jump in. I'll also be incorporating a sustain pedal. I'm on the fence about using a momentary or a binary (tap once for on, again for off) pedal set up. In order to combat cross talk I've decided to take a marimba like approach and run marimba cording through posts between each key and then through the key itself, to keep it in place resting atop a 1 inch think low density PVC foam covered rail. The keys themselves have a 10MM T-Slot down each side which will allow me to put another 1 inch segment of the PVC foam between each key and the surrounding posts to keep everything in it's proper location. The nice thing about these aluminum framing pieces is that they have a channel right down the center which is perfect to insert a 1/4" female TRS jack and also serves to focus the vibration waves from the stick strike all into a fairly narrow band on the bottom of the bar. The mouse pad thing has worked exceedingly well in the past as a striking surface, so I'll use that again. It also helps that I have a bunch of that around. I have a bunch of 37mm Piezo pickups laying around from another project, so I'll afix those to the bottom of each bar with some 3M double sided foam adhesive disks. I'll need to cover the Piezos themselves with something, but I'm not sure what that will be yet, suggestions welcome.

When it is all said and done, if anyone is interested, I'll put together a parts list for the Rexroth stuff in case anyone wants to take a stab at it on their own.

So, along the way, let me know if it is interesting and do drop in questions or suggestions as they occur to you.

It would be really nice if we could end up with a "kit" of sorts that anyone with some basic skills could pull together into an electronic marimba.

[airflamesred]

I'm interested in some pics.
You can connect a sustain pedal via the midi thru on MD

[shaugnd]

Ok, so, busy day today. I spent some time hanging with the good folks from Bosch Rexroth at "Drive For Technology" got some great ideas.


I've tried to upload pics, but they are all too big, so I'm going to try to bake them in with the IMG tag linking to my GoogleDrive. Hopefully it works.

First up, as promised, some pics of FrankenKit 3.0

First, a wide-ish angle view ->

Ok, so the img thing doesn't work with Google Drive. Fair enough. You can go here to see the set of three images:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B84W6J9yhBcRY0RwOXRoeERPMGM&usp=sharing

The WideAngle image shows the whole setup as best as I can. The room isn't very big, so I could only back up so far. You'll see the HPD-15 to the left, Td-12 about center image, and the HD-1 Brain under the wall mounted music stand.

The monitors are driven by the laptop on the upper left which runs a bunch of stuff like Native Instruments Komplete 8, Steven Slate Drums, Addictive Drums and some other stuff that I can detail separately if anyone cares.

There is a Fender Passport speaker system and mixing board that I use to blend all the sounds and annoy the neighbors from time to time, but mostly it is just headphones out of the fender for audio. The laptop does some audio processing and feeds the Fender system.

On the far left is a VERY OLD, circa 1986 Casio CT630 that I use just for MIDI control. The on board sounds are pretty bad. But that is what I could afford when I was a teenager. It still works and that is a miracle in its own right. The CT630 is going to be replaced by the little white keyed Midi controller from Kieth McMillen instruments. This little QueNeo is AWESOME. But that is a whole post on its own.

As far as the pads are concerned, here's the scoop:

The black trio up top are the original HD-1 pads and are still connected to the HD-1 brain. I really like some of the effects from the HD-1 and they weren't available anywhere else. Plus, the HD-1 can Midi send, though I haven't messed with it yet. But it is a future option. Playability and feel on the pads is atrocious once you've worked with mesh, but as aux equipment it works.

The crash on the left is a dual trigger CY-5 triggering the primary crash on the TD-12.

The CY-5 looking things to the right of the trio of black pads are the SINGLE trigger cymbals from the HD-1. One connects to the HD-1 crash while the other goes to the TD-12 Aux. I'm thinking of using an extra piezo that I have lying around to add a second zone to one of those. I'll post about it if I can get it to work.

The ride is the Roland 3 zone ride and connects natively to the TD-12 using two dual channel TRS cables.

The mesh toms all go to the TD-12. There are two dual trigger PDX-6 and two dual trigger PDX-8 pads.

The snare is my pride and joy for this kit, having built/converted it myself. The head, as mentioned before is a genuine V-Drums base drum replacement head that I found in the cheapo misc. heads rack at a music shop (what a steal). Triggering is handled by one piezo mounted to the brass shell, and one piezo suspended beneath the head by straps which anchor between the head rim and the shell. Playability is awesome. I bought some cheap two ply rubber tubing from Menards and cut it down the middle (which was the hardest part of the whole conversion) and used it to insulate the rim for rim shots.

The foot zone is a little crazy.

Far left, off screen is a Boss foot switch for changing patches on the HPD-15.

Next to the right and in frame is a Roland volume control pedal which goes back to the HPD-15 and performs different functions depending upon the patch selected. Sometimes it tunes a Timpani, other times it is a HH control, still other patches it is just a simple trigger.

Next to the right is a Roland HH pedal. It's old, but it works well. It runs HH control on the TD-12.

Step to the right again and you have the HH pedal built into the HD-1 frame. It is still connected to the HD-1 and used for triggering effects. Why, you ask? Because it was there as part of the frame anyway, might as well use it once in a while.

One more hop to the right and you get a nifty little trick kick drum pedal with two beaters and separate heal and toe pedals. I love it. It took quite a bit of practice to use it effectively, though. The beaters pound on the pad used for the snare on the HD-1. It looks like a PDX-8, plays like one too, but it is only single trigger. So, it works great as a base trigger and is mounted with a standard pad clamp on one of the HD-1 vertical bars. Rock solid stable, too. Heavy use does rattle the whole kit a bit, but no cross talk problems yet.

And lastly, one more hop to the right and you get the kick pedal for the HD-1 connected as intended and used for effects similarly to the HD-1 HH control pedal mentioned before.

If you were particularly observant you might have noticed two oddball pedals velcro'd to the toe guard of the HD-1 pedals. These are sustain pedals. One goes to the HPD-15 and the other will go to the MegaDrum to handle sustain for the MegaMalletRex.

Well, that's it. It isn't much to look at, but it is a hoot to play around with. I'll tell you, though, I'd never travel with it. Setup is a royal pain in the ass.

And now moving on to MegaMalletRex:

I started working on assembly today. As you'll see, I am just getting the frame and strike bars into place. Total time cutting the aluminum extrusions and fitting the pieces today was about an hour and 45 minutes. Keeping in mind that I've been futzing around with different approaches for a little bit, that time isn't factored in. So, here we go:

Here is the image set => https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing

01. Basic 10 inch compound miter saw with a carbide tipped blade. Cuts this stuff like butter. Eye protection is a must as the shards of aluminum fly all over the place. Gloves and long sleeves are a good idea as well. When the aluminum shards fly off they are super hot. I got burned a couple of times and then got smart and covered up.

02. Raw materials bottom piece is going to be the strike bars.

03. Raw materials close up on standard EcoShape profile from Bosch Rexroth. Used for frame elements

04. Raw Materials close up on EcoShape with a 10 MM T-Slot. Used to support strike bars.

05. Raw Materials roll of recycled plastic bottle foam. It is actually sold as landscape edging at Menards. ;-}

06. I cut off a chunk of foam at 5.25 inches (the length of the strike bar) and then insert it into the T-Slot. That white rod is used to space the cut so it is roughly the same on every bar.

07. I use a carpet knife to do the cutting. Works better than a pointy razor knife. Not sure why.

08. Fresh Cut strike bar

09. This is a prototype strike bar with the jack inserted in the center hole and mousepad material on the left side. The white padding on the right side covers the piezo. I don't like it. I'm going to do something else for this. Not sure what.

10. Strike bar after the spacer foam has been cut.

The T-Slot EcoShape that you see on the right side of the picture is a bit of scrap that I've laid some self adhesive 12-volt LED strip lighting into. I'm going to use it for a light on the finished product.

11. and 12. I'm using a snare stand base with a tom mount instead of the snare basket and then a Tama DogBone to clamp on to the EcoShape bottom rail. It might not have a wide enough foot print, though. I may need to use a wide base from a cymbal boom stand, or some extra bits of Roland Rack that I have sitting around. Rigid electrical conduit is an option as well. Nothing firm on this yet. We'll figure it out. Suggestions welcome.

13. 14. 15. Here I am placing the bars on the rail. If you look closely, you will see some "inside to inside gussets" also like right able nuts inserted into the T-Slot. These form the posts that the mallet cord will ultimately string through. Between these "posts" a small bit of the separator foam is inserted into the T-Slot to prevent the strike bar from contacting the strike bar rail. This will help prevent cross talk.

That's all I have for now. I'll hopefully make some more progress tomorrow and post a new update. Once it comes time to wire in the jacks and solder the piezos on, updates will be slow as the process will take quite a bit of time to complete. I'm not a wiz at soldering. I'll be lucky to get one or two done each day.

Suggestions, thoughts, critique, and humorous banter welcome. Flame if it makes you feel good.

Shaugn