Configuration instruction for Roland VH-11/VH-12

[dmitri]

Hi !

My hi hat seems to work

I use BFD2. I set "pedal" function, and I set "variable tip" and "variable shank" (heerrr, is "tip" is for the edge sensor and "shank" for edge ?, my english isn't perfect, and I don't really know if it's correct).

I can see variable pedal position, but the sound don't correspond to the pedal position, I have always a kind of 1/4 of hi hat openning, but no open hi hat sound or close hi hat sound...

I guess it is due to incorrect BFD2 settings. I'd suggest to post the question in http://www.megadrum.info/forums/viewforum.php?f=4

Is i have to select single piezo or dual/3way yamaha?

If it is a 3way Yamaha cymbal then you should configure it as a 3way Yamaha cymbal as advised in http://www.megadrum.info/content/settin ... one-cymbal

[Hidingsecretlife2]

has anyone played around with the VH-13? i'm trying to configure one right now. also, do i put a resister between tip and ring on both the high and low impedance inputs?

[dmitri]

You may not need a resistor. Have you any particular problem configuring it?

[Hidingsecretlife2]

my levels look like this:
low impedance input, lowlvl =36, high lvl =54
high impedance input, lowlvl =9, highlvl =22

[dmitri]

Can you measure voltage on the pedal output in close and open positions?

[angr77]

Some characteristics...

Roland Hi Hat Controller Resistance Range
FULL OPEN FULL CLOSED
FD-7: 19.9 Kohm .029 Kohm
VH-11 20.6 Kohm .008 Kohm (xtra tight) 5 kohm (normal)
VH-12 19 Kohm 10 Kohm (xtra tight) 14 Kohm (normal)
VH-13 18,3 kohm 0,6 Kohm (xtra tight) 4 kohm (normal)

You should add about a 10-15 k ohm resistor between the tip and ring on the hihat input. I think I am running my VH-11 in the high impedance input.

Best regards

Angr77

[ErikM]

This is a configuration instruction for a Roland VH-11/VH-12 HiHat pedal controller. This instruction doesn't cover configuration of a HiHat cymbal. VH-11/12 hardware must be adjusted first according to Roland's instruction manuals. You must have MegaDrum firmware version 20121208 or newer.

1. Set AltIn according to a selected pedal input. For the low impedance input AltIn must be set to No and for the high impedance input AltIn must be set to Yes.
2. Set LevelsAuto to No.
3. Set LowLevel to a minimum (11).
4. Set HiLevel to a maximum (1023).
5. Go to LowLevel and press the pedal to within 5%-10% of fully closed (almost closed). In the top row of the LCD you will read current "raw level" reading. Set LowLevel just below the current "raw level" reading.
6. Go to HiLevel and press the pedal to within 5%-10% of fully open (almost open). In the top row of the LCD you will read current "raw level" reading. Set HiLevel just above the current "raw level" reading.
7. Using Big VU meter make sure MegaDrum properly detects fully closed/fully open positions. If the pedal's Big VU Meter doesn't go all the way left when the pedal is fully closed - raise LowLevel slightly. If the pedal's Big VU Meter doesn't go all the way right when the pedal is fully open - lower HiLevel slightly.
8. If with the rock solid pressure on the pedal somewhere in between fully closed and fully open the pedal's Big VU Meter is not stable you may want to increase RdcLvl.

Adding a 10k-20k resistor between tip and ring may increase the range (smoothness) of the pedal. Using the high impedance input may also increase the pedal's range. After adding a resistor or changing pedal's input you must repeat the steps from this instruction.

^Beyond that...and the somewhat cryptic (to me) language on this page: https://www.megadrum.info/content/hihat-pedal-settings, the hi-hat has been the hardest thing for me to setup.

Some questions I have about hi-hat set up are below:

<HiHat Pedal >
HHInput: 2

Set the input number which will be paired with the HiHat pedal as a HiHat cymbal. It is set to input 2 by default which is a default HiHat cymbal input. It can be set to any even input number corresponding to a Bow input of a dual (3 zone) cymbal.

1) Does this mean input 2,4,6,8... (no odds) on the unit (or one you built at any rate)? Input 2 is the only mono input I have, yet the hi-hat needs a stereo plug for edge and bow, no?

Other Hi-Hat Pedal/Pad Questions not clear from forum or @ https://www.megadrum.info/content/hihat-pedal-settings
2) When would we use "New Algorithm" no vs yes? Based on hi-hat cymbal type or...?
3) Is the CC value always 4?
4) "When using CC messages and MDM Raw MIDI Log as a guidance you need to achieve such a configuration that CC messages are not sent by MegaDrum in extreme pedal positions." In other words, the Raw MIDI log should not register messages when fully opened, or fully closed, so raise or lower as needed to stop raw messages?
5) Maybe I am making this complicated, but bear with me: For Open, Semi Open, SO2, Half Open, HO2, Closed...There are 6 divisions or points. Given that each point range is from 0-127 do we take the High Setting (or number when open) as seen on the LCD when open (465 in my case) and subtract the Low or closed position (311 in my case)? So 465-311=154, divide that by 128 = 1.2 for each 1. There are 6 divisions or points, 128/6= 21.3 between each or 21.3 x 1.2 in my case = 25.6 between each based on my number readings so: Open= 0 (bump up to 10?), Semi Open= 10+25.6, SO2= 10+2x25.6, Half Open= 10+3x25.6, HO2= 10+4x25.6, Closed= 128 (bump down to 118?)? Or do we simply divide 128 by 6? 0.2 doesn't change much in my case.
6) Chick Threshold: set above Closed value by how much?
7) Soft Chick Threshold: set 1/2 between closed and chick threshold?
8) https://www.megadrum.info/content/hihat-pedal-settings says "ShrtChckTh" Do you mean "soft"? I don't see "short" in MDM FX
9) Can someone expand on the Soft (or short?) and Long Chick Thresholds?
10) Can someone expand on the "Bell" as nothing is mentioned on the hi-hat bell here https://www.megadrum.info/content/hihat-pedal-settings
11) viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4771&p=36483&hilit=chick+splash+notes#p36483 dmitri: "Chick and Splash are for the whole of HiHat (generated from pedal movements) so they don't have separate notes for cymbal zones" ibanman555 wrote: "what do I assign the notes to under the Pads window for Hi Hat?" dmitri: "To the notes for the open HiHat cymbal sounds." Also, viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4768&p=36489&hilit=hi+hat+bell#p36489, dmitri: "... set all all Notes in Pedal settings for all cymbal zones (bow, edge and bell) and pedal positions (from semi-open to closed) equal to Notes (bow, edge and bell) in HiHat cymbal settings."

It seems counterintuitive to set all the notes the same given we expect at least 2 different sounds. Does this mean All Edges are #x and All Bells are #x, also that the All Bows should be the same as the edge, #x? e.g. EVERYTHING Hi-Hat is set to 36, Chick and Splash too? Or Edges #x Bows #y Bells #z Chick and Splash #? I assume edge is open, bow closed for hats, but not sure what to think now.

It's funny and ironic that ibanman555 chimed in back in 2012 on hi-hats, then in 2020 "It works. For the first time in so many years, it finally works."(viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4771&hilit=hi+hat+notes&start=10) Hopefully I can say the same soon, though its only taken me 2 years to get back around to this, not 8.

[ibanman555]

The hi hat really is the hardest part to set up on MegaDrum, at least from my experience. It's important to remember that an E-Kit is an instrument, different from a real acoustic kit, and an E-Kit will never be an acoustic kit. You'll need to set it up the way you want, that works best for you. For starters, please inform us what type of MD you have, and what virtual instrument (drum software) you're using. It matters...

1) On the back (from left to right looking from the back) top row:
1. HiHat pedal/controller input
2. Kick
3. HiHat
4. Snare
5. Ride
6. Crash
7. Tom1
8. Tom2
9. Tom3
10. Tom4
11. Aux1
12. Aux2
13. Aux3
14. Aux4
15. Aux5

On the back (from left to right looking from the back) bottom row:

16. Aux6
17. Aux7
18. Aux8
19. Aux9
20. Aux10
21. Aux11
22. Aux12
23. Aux13
24. Aux14
25. Aux15
26. Aux16
27. Aux17
28. Aux18
29. Aux19

The physical 1st connection is for the hi hat pedal. Do not count this as #1. So, kick would be a mono channel, yes. #2 is the first stereo input, in this case, default for hi hat. Use this for your pads.

2) New pedal handling algorithm for CC4 messages and Chick/Splash triggering. Default is No. When set to Yes it uses 4 settings:
MinVlcty
MaxVlcty
ChckDead
ChkCrv

You'll probably want to choose yes, as it provides you with more options and control for your hi hats.

3) If you don't want to see your hat pedal in MDM midi log, or you don't want your pedal to communicate with your drum software, pick any number. If you'd like it to work, leave it on 4. This is the standard with drum programs.

4) This means your hi and low levels should have a little headroom. When you press your pedal fully down, you should have a solid midi CC value of 0, especially when striking with a stick. Same for fully raised except this value is 127. I set low level, and then increase it by 5 manually. I set hi level, and then decrease it by 5. This way, your pedal press will reach 0 a hair before it is fully close, and the similar purpose for fully open.

5) Yes you are, so pick some random spaced out numbers between Velocity 0-127 for these. These are the pedal position numbers, telling Open, SO, SO2, etc when to play their assigned Note numbers. Play your hi hat and make adjustments that "feel right". Or, divide 127 equally by 6.... Your choice. The hi and low setting numbers have absolutely nothing to do with velocity numbers. Sorry you did all that math

6)However much you want. Do you want your pedal chick sound to occur when the pedal reaches halfway between open and closed? You can do that. I set mine 2 above closed, that way the chick sound occurs when...well...it should.

7)"Soft chick" are HiHat "chicks" which are triggered when the pedal is pressed only half way and then quickly released. This is an option setting, not a threshold.

8)ShrtChckTh stands for Short Chick Threshold. Set the level below which a following pedal 'step on' will generate a chick with velocity between 1 and 64 depending on the speed with which the pedal is pressed.

9) ShrtChckTh - Set the level below which a following pedal 'step on' will generate a chick with velocity between 1 and 64 depending on the speed with which the pedal is pressed.

LngChckTh - Set the level below which a following pedal 'step on' will generate a chick with velocity between 1 and 127 depending on the speed with which the pedal is pressed.

10) If you're using a VH-12, you don't have a bell trigger so you can ignore it.

11)This really is the most confusing part, and also personal preference. You can do this one of two ways. Superior Drummer for example has a specific midi note trigger for tip and edge. These are not one sound notes....When all hi hat notes in MD are assigned to these ( all Edges are assigned same Edge trigger note, and all Tip are assigned same tip note) Superior Drummer listens and hears the same note, and the Pedal CC change is responsible for changing the sound.

Alternatively, you can assign each note to its respective open-ness sound in the drum program, which is the method I prefer for all my drum programs.

The reason for this is because when you link Hi Hat Pedal to the Hi hat input in MD, any movement of the pedal will send it's corresponding openness note. This is a problem with Superior Drummer because whennthe CC change sends other notes, even if the pad is not struck, it causes a studdered crappy transmuting sound. This is because SD CC is sending notes depending on openness, And not just CC. The only way to resolve this issue is to connect Hi Hat pads to an input that doesn't communicate with the pedal. This way, the Trigger note for hi hat is sent to SD, and the pedal only sends CC (no notes) and all works as it should. At the same time, it's a problem in SD... And not MD. Very confusing. It opened up a whole other set of problems, hence my prior statement.....

Set your drum software openness notes to their corresponding openness in Pedal settings...drive home happy. Ugh....

It took 8 years because this was a project, not a priority. Also, my "It finally works" comment was the cumulation of recent hardware fixes with the VH-12 I had never considered, plus taking the time it deserved to actually learn to use MD. My opinion based on my experience is because of the rare use my kit has gotten over the years. I didn't take the time to sit and understand the configuration documentation. I was looking for fast results at the time, and it did take that long to get around to really understanding how to do it. I settled on what I thought was good enough, but knew it could be better. The documents explain how the settings work, not how to use them. This is not plug and play, and it takes time, but once you get a grasp of what the settings actually do as well as how to work them, you're likely to feel like it was worth the time to invest.

[ErikM]

Thanks for your response. Hopefully a few others will be helped as well. I follow most of your responses or figured the answers would be as such, but nice to have someone else explain them.

For starters, please inform us what type of MD you have, and what virtual instrument (drum software) you're using. It matters...

Added to my signature.

I am trying to avoid drum VSTs to use an Ableton drum rack directly. The Ableton rack is the non-VST VST or MIDI device. Works, except that the hi hat is killing me at this point. Some of the language, and/or lack of it, for config setup is making this hard for me too as I can only deduce so much given my current background knowledge. I can start an Ableton post elsewhere or find one and add to the discussion so you can see what I see in Ableton. Not sure it matters just yet.

The physical 1st connection is for the hi hat pedal. Do not count this as #1. So, kick would be a mono channel, yes. #2 is the first stereo input, in this case, default for hi hat. Use this for your pads.

"2. Kick 3. HiHat" was my setup, but I started second guessing myself due to my hi-hat struggles (30+hours? of reading and tweaking). dimitri saying "It is set to input 2 by default which is a default HiHat cymbal input" did not help. That is flat out confusing as 2 ≠ 3. Thus my need for clarification. I assume he means 3, not 2, but I'm still uncertain at this point.

2)...You'll probably want to choose yes, as it provides you with more options and control for your hi hats.

That was my deduction, but I wanted to tackle that after I got it working without the new algorithm to begin with. Right now it's a land of more settings I might not grasp or they may actually mess up the simpler route. I do plan to investigate later, but was mostly curious if it is not needed for some cymbal or pad makes/models.

5) ...pick some random spaced out numbers between Velocity 0-127 for these. These are the pedal position numbers, telling Open, SO, SO2, etc when to play their assigned Note numbers. Play your hi hat and make adjustments that "feel right". Or, divide 127 equally by 6.... Your choice. The hi and low setting numbers have absolutely nothing to do with velocity numbers. Sorry you did all that math

They aren't really velocities right, you do mean position numbers? I assume feel is the way to go, but thought I would start with some arithmetic or maybe get used to that position setup/feel (as a starting point at any rate).

8)ShrtChckTh stands for Short Chick Threshold...

I don't see "Shrt"(short) except in the config directions. Wondering if it is a typo. It is not in my MDMFX (or I am looking past it).

9)...velocity between 1 and 64 depending on the speed...velocity between 1 and 127 depending on the speed with which the pedal is pressed.

Is "Time Delta" in the Raw MIDI in MDMFX the velocity? I can't figure out how to see "velocity" in MIDIOX either. Or are they the numbers on the MDMFX Visual MIDI?

10) If you're using a VH-12, you don't have a bell trigger so you can ignore it.

Yeah, bummer, this was helpful: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Roland_V-Drums Didn't realize my vh12 edge was a switch until recently.

11)...When all hi hat notes in MD are assigned to these (all Edges are assigned same Edge trigger note, and all Tip are assigned same tip note) Superior Drummer listens and hears the same note, and the Pedal CC change is responsible for changing the sound...

OK, now the settings you sent me make sense. I was like wtf, must be a VST thing. That said, the Bell is irrelevant for me, and I was already on the logical right track of all Bow and Edge being the same. i.e. all edges 37 all bows 36

I'm still unclear on chick and splash notes/#, but assume they can be whatever note/# I want and I can add whatever cymbal sound I want in Ableton. However, I still don't follow dmitri: "Chick and Splash are for the whole of HiHat (generated from pedal movements) so they don't have separate notes for cymbal zones" ibanman555 wrote: "what do I assign the notes to under the Pads window for Hi Hat?" dmitri: "To the notes for the open HiHat cymbal sounds." Perhaps this is preference, but would think they could be different sounds if desired. **Otherwise it seems he is saying Chick and splash would be the same as the "open note (not note"s" by the way) which would be whatever sound (not sound"s") is linked to the note/# for the Head/Bow, which is the "open" sound, no?**

It took 8 years because... The documents explain how the settings work, not how to use them. This is not plug and play, and it takes time...

Similar for me, but over a shorter time span.

I have spent a lot of time reading and re-reading the config info, and scouring the web and the forum. I think I have spent over 30 hours on the hi-hat alone. Some settings are fine, explained well, clear (to me anyway), and some are honestly very lacking even on the "how they work" front. There seems to be a dearth of info beyond the site and forum, even YouTube of all places. One of my intentions, if I ever master MDMFX, is to add to the setup knowledge how-to because it has been such a chore for me. I can't be the only one that has struggled or settled with settings that could be better given how much control there seems to be. Overall it is a fairly simple machine, (most) settings too.

I had little faith, or more hope than faith, that MegaDrum was what I needed as I was tired of the corner using two older Roland brains put me in. I was skeptical with MegaDrum even after poking around, until it arrived and mostly worked. The unit dimirti built is beautiful. That helped my faith, but looks aren't everything. I don't know how many units have been bought or built, how many people actually use them daily or weekly, how many people have given up, or if any of that is an indication of how good it is or might be, but like most open-source like projects it takes a few dedicated believers and fans to make it better. Thanks to you and others here for making it happen.

[ibanman555]

I can't say how to configure drum instruments in Ableton, I've never used them, just VSTs. I don't know I you'll find a lot of help here in regards to that. But, when you do figure it out please share.

Sure...position numbers can be said. It really is velocity, but a different kind, as in the static velocity of a midi note. Now we are also discussing physical pedal velocity, the speed in which the pedal is pressed from open, or released from closed, or either of those from a position somewhere in the middle..... They are responsible for chick and splash, and produce their own midi note # that you choose. I hope that makes sense. There is ultimate adjustment for minimum velocity, maximum velocity and how everything responds based on those setting....*brain explodes* I kept tweeking until it was right, albeit still a little misunderstood.

There are likely words used between documentation and MDMFX that don't make sense/match. Bear with it.... We can continue a dialogue about how to or what's this mean
type questions. But what I can tell you is if you have a VH-12, with a resistor soldered in, my hi hat pedal settings are really spot on and should work just as well for you. I have 2 or 3 different hi hat pedal MD config files for different VST instruments, so I export those for you too, just to have.