HiHat Pedal Chicks and HiHat Input Bow CrossTalk when stomp

[maru_engineering]

I think these go directly to Dmitri:

Is there in the algorithm of the MD some kind of internal crosstalk cancellation in place between the chick note generated by the HiHat Pedat and the HiHat input? i.e. it's not possible to put the Chick or Splash note in a crosstalk Group.

Is the moment of Chick Note generation related to Chick Threshold value and the Position of the Pedal?

I'm asking these questions because I get HiHat Bow notes Besides the expected Chicks when working with the HiHat Pedal...
My HiHat is more or less consistent with the acoustic HiHat design in order to retain, as much as possible, the playing feel for the drummer; I mean it has a 13'' top Brass dampened cymbal with two zones (bow and edge) and a 10'' dampened splash that plays the role of the bottom hat.

If it's not possible to correct the response by adjusting parameters I might have to consider changing the HiHat design...

Thank You!

[dmitri]

Please show a screenshot from MIDI Log in MDM when you get a false bow triggering after a chick.

[maru_engineering]

BTW, I'm using the New Algorithm for the HiHat Pedal...

HiHatChick.PNG

On the previous Image I had the wrong pad showing...

[dmitri]

Do I understand it right that the bow triggers almost a full second after a chick? Why does the bow piezo triggers almost a second after a chick? Excessive vibration?
If add so much more suppression after a chick it will suppress real bow hits for almost a second after a chick.

[maru_engineering]

Do I understand it right that the bow triggers almost a full second after a chick? Why does the bow piezo triggers almost a second after a chick? Excessive vibration?
If add so much more suppression after a chick it will suppress real bow hits for almost a second after a chick.

No, the bow piezo is "seen" first; the chick note comes after; I had seen different values, from 0 (zero) and 4 ,ost of them...
The reason I was asking "where" along the pedal travel the chick note is generated was because I was hoping to generate the chick "earlier", before the two cymbals make contact and trigger the bow note...

Aren't the guys with VH-12 or 13 have the same problem? As far as I remember those are 2 piece Hihats as well...

[dmitri]

I see. In this case you need to lower Chick Threshold so that a chick is detected earlier in the movement of the pedal before cymbals hit each other. You also need to make sure the Chick Delay is not too long.

[dmitri]

Or you need to adjust mechanics of the pedal so that the pedal riches "closed" output level before cymbals hit each other.

[maru_engineering]

So, the chick note is generated when CC4 reaches the Chick Threshold Value... Is the module looking at CC4 level raw data or post HiHat Pedal Curve?
I am using the curve Custom13 you can see in the screenshot; this is giving me the Tight articulation only if the pedal is pressed hard and I get a little bit of tolerance for the Closed articulation...

Chick Delay is 0 because I let SD2.0 to manage the chick vs. splash... Splash note in MD is 0.

I'm not sure what you mean by:"Or you need to adjust mechanics of the pedal so that the pedal riches "closed" output level before cymbals hit each other."
I mean I'm not sure what closed output level means; I'm using a Hall sensor, the raw values go between 487 down to below 100 when pressed hard; the articulations from SD2.0 are triggered correctly by CC4 messages...

Or you meant that I should also lower the Closed Level value in MD (the one above Chick Threshold in MDManager)... Does this even matter if I send the same note numbers for bow respectively edge regardless of the HiHat Pedal value?

I will make some tests this evening and report back here...

Thank you.

[dmitri]

MegaDrum looks at the CC level with the curve applied when checking for crossing threshold levels.

I mean I'm not sure what closed output level means; I'm using a Hall sensor, the raw values go between 487 down to below 100 when pressed hard; the articulations from SD2.0 are triggered correctly by CC4 messages...

I mean that you adjust the sensor position so that the closed level output 100 is reached sooner when you step on the pedal.

[maru_engineering]

Hi Dmitri,

None of the tricks worked 100%; probably the HiHat Pedal processing time inside the MD takes a bit (1-2ms) longer than the processing of the piezo signal from the HiHat input... The time between bow and chick decreased to 0-2 ms as shown in the MDManager MIDI Log, sometimes it was working fine, but as I said, not 100% reliable.

So finally I decided to apply o soft grommet around the bottom cymbal to reduce the impact noise and it looks good now... Of course, the feeling changed; I will have to fine tune the hardware side...

Thank you for your help!