A to E drum conversion : Megadrum + Acoustic drum + Junxion

[kimouette]

Gastric I'm really sorry for the misunderstood...
I did post a picture of a 3 zone cymbal (only because it was the clearest picture!), but I just did'nt point out clearly enough the fact that I'm about to build a 2 zone cymbal... and that Raper circuit, I never planed to build it!

Maybe when my drum conversion is complete and I become really familiar with my Megadrum, I'll want to optimize my drum's potential (according to Megadrum's capabilities of course), but as of right now, I feel my head's going to explode and using only 2 piezos on each instrument is already complicated enough ( if just like me, you want to avoid having to untape some bitumen tape or break some piezo's wires!)

The reason you're not getting a lot of assistance on the V-Drum forum is you specifically mention MegaDrum and I've only ever seen a couple MegaDrum DIY users there.

You're probably right
I just thought that being specific was a "must" in order to get concrete advices.

For a 2-zone cymbal you just stick one piezo about 1/2 to 1/3 way between the edge and bell. And the other directly on the bell. Still straight forward. Still should explore placing the piezo on the opposite side.

That's exactly what I'll do! And I guess I'll be positioning the hihat,s piezos exactly like the other cymbales.

[gastric]

Glad I could help. You should have no issue sticking 2 piezos on the cymbal and isolating them with MegaDrum settings for dual-zone bell/bow.

You can likely implement a simple cymbal choke switch using Hellfire's design here: http://www.hellfiredrums.com/archives/67 A modification to that, and which makes it more simple, is to simply use the cymbal as half of the switch. You can see more here: http://www.vdrums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41409 Again, it's posted by a Roland user so ignore the part about using it for an edge trigger switch AND choke via the Raper circuit. This choke uses one input configured as a switch to trigger the choke in your choke-capable VSTi. Works really great and gives a very wide choke.

[kimouette]

Question for anyone who managed to convert an acoustic hihat to an electronic hihat and get a REALISTIC SOUND...

Would it be any useful to add 2 more piezos, but this time, on the BOTTOM hat, in order to enhance the hihat's capabilities?

Or will hiting the top hat trigger the bottom hat anyway and just create a big mess?

[gastric]

All piezos should be on the top hat only. I currently have a 1-zone HH on the bow and it's realistic sounding. The trick to acoustic hat conversions is matching the audible sound to the visual position of your hats. For that you need some MIDI Mapper or VSTi (only BFD1.5 and BFD2 provide that natively as far as I'm aware) that allows you to control at which CC4 value the closed/open samples change. Otherwise you'll likely find you have to open your hats 1.5" or more before you stop getting a closed sound which is visually unrealistic.

[kimouette]

I see what you mean.

Honestly, I have to admit that I envy Jman's hihat!! I'm currently trying to figure out a way to give at least this one instrument as much realism as I can. I dont want to feel the two seperate sounds as I hit it or do a "drum roll".

And I cant run BFD2 !

I read the minimum requirements, and it cannot work for me : I have a G4 and it requires a G5 or Intel CPU.

Maybe it's not a good idead, but since I read your answer I'm thinking that maybe I could just add one or two more piezos but on the TOP HAT that would just trigger other hihat sounds and most important, I could put some kind of rubber material in 4 spots right on the edge of the two cymbals to make sur they never make contact.

Or am I still heading for a disaster?

[gastric]

Jman's 3-way hihat is likely identical to his 3-way ride. The only difference is one cymbal is smaller than the other. What would be most ideal is to use the new Yamaha 3-way support and install a piezo on the bow, switch on the bell, and switch on the edge. That's all of the various hihat sounds you can generate. Actually, now that I said that, I'm not sure what support MegaDrum has for 3-way multi-zone hihat. It might only support 2-zone hats right now.

[kimouette]

Are you currently testing the setting you described?
I have built Syntex's All in one kit and on the input list it seems we can only plug a potentiometer + 2 piezos for the hihat.
Do you think it would be possible to create that setting (2 X Hellfire's switch + 1 piezo on the bow) by using the aux. inputs. and by configuring the whole thing with a software like Junxion.

I have already installed the potentiometer on the pedal. I'll just wait for your verdict before adding the piezos.

Thanks a lot for your help!
Kim

[gastric]

I know nothing of the synth you're referring to. Here's Dmitri's response on 3-zone hihats: viewtopic.php?p=4459#p4459

[kimouette]

You can configure HiHat as 3 zone input but "built in" Half Open/Close notes will only be effective for bow/edge.
On the other hand if sampler software can properly process CC messages for a HiHat pedal, it may properly process all three zones.

I dont understand what "built-in" means.
And does that answer mean that my potentiometer has to be soldered to both switches?

Steim Junxion is what I was about to use Megadrum with. Since I'm a Mac user, I cant run Edrummonitor. I still haven't test Megadrum with it, but from all the research I did, it seems to be the only application able to let me route MIDI data.

Here are 2 printscreen showing the different options we have within the "Action" section of the software... Sorry about the messy printscreens!

Image 1.png

Image2.jpg

[gastric]

Your pot is used for your pedal and is wired tip/sleeve and connected to the hihat pedal input on the MegaDrum. The MegaDrum will then use that to generate CC4 data. That's completely separate from anything else on a hardware level.

Whatever pad you're going to use for your hihat can then be built using whatever you want. 2 piezos (bell/bow), 1 piezo 1 switch (bow/edge or bow/bell), or 1 piezo and 2 switches (bow/bell/edge), or if you really want to waste 2 inputs on your MegaDrum 2 peizos (bell/bow) and 1 switch (edge) for a Roland style 3-zone (no idea why anyone would do that at this point with Yamaha support available). Your choice is mostly going to depend on the synth you're going to use as Dmitri has indicated that you can only get open/closed on two zones, the third zone can only output a single MIDI NOTE which is not tied to the pedal movement.

So if you build a 3 zone cymbal, lets say Yahama style, and connect to MegaDrum the MegaDrum will be able to do the following:

Zone1: open note, closed note (lets say this is the bow)
Zone2: open note, closed note (lets say this is the edge)
Zone3: single constant note (lets say this is the bell)

However, it will also always be passing on the CC4 data for the pedal.

So at that point it's up to the synth to be able to do something with the single-note Zone3 and the CC4 data and perform some intelligent computation to that data to be able to generate multiple samples, such as different open/closed bell notes, assuming you put Zone3 for the bell. Just like it's really up to the synth to provide intelligent computation for Zone1 and Zone2 if you ever want more than just two different events (open/closed).

So, in conclusion you have to consider all of the levels of abstraction (trigger, hardware module, synth) to get the big picture and to decide how to build your trigger.

I would personally start with a 1 zone (bow), get that working properly and to your liking. Then add the the edge using a switch, get that working properly. Then if you really need that bell wire in a bell switch and get that working.

Really, the worst case scenario is your synth can't compute on it's own a variable bell using the CC4 data and Zone3 MIDI NOTE and you get stuck with a just open or just closed bell triggering.