A to E drum conversion : Megadrum + Acoustic drum + Junxion

[gastric]

Here's some help.

* If you're going to use 2 jacks do NOT wire the jacks together with wires
* Each switch needs only 2 wires, 1 wire from each of the individual plates, with 1 plate wired to ring and the other plate to sleeve/ground (like you have in the left jack in your diagram)
* Not to confuse you as this makes it more complicated, but you could save yourself a jack and wire both switches to the same ring/sleeve on the same jack (that's correct, both switches wired to the exact same posts on the exact same jack) by using a single 10K resistor on the edge switch where it's wired to the ring and then setting the MegaDrum to use the Yamaha style triggers. This is detailed here: viewtopic.php?p=3878#p3878

[kimouette]

* If you're going to use 2 jacks do NOT wire the jacks together with wires

That picture I posted is elrules's current setting. Maybe I'm wrong but I believe it has been tested and it actually works... All other Roland diagrams show 1 piezo per jack. I thought this way of wiring one piezo to two switches could maybe avoid some crosstalk. But you're saying that it CANNOT work is that it?

* Each switch needs only 2 wires, 1 wire from each of the individual plates, with 1 plate wired to ring and the other plate to sleeve/ground (like you have in the left jack in your diagram)

If I was using a pratice cymbal it would all make sens to me. But my question is mostly based on the fact that I thought my acoustic cymbal would replace one plate.
So the first plate (made of aluminium, copper or whatever conductive material) would be wired to Ring. That's fine. But what about the second plate (in my case the cymbal itself) how exactly do I ground it? I've never seen a clear explanation of that! Should I solder a wire going from my cymbal to Sleeve? It doesn't sound right at all!! Atleast I have never read that anywhere!

* Not to confuse you as this makes it more complicated, but you could save yourself a jack and wire both switches to the same ring/sleeve on the same jack (that's correct, both switches wired to the exact same posts on the exact same jack) by using a single 10K resistor on the edge switch where it's wired to the ring and then setting the MegaDrum to use the Yamaha style triggers. This is detailed here: viewtopic.php?p=3878#p3878

I know. You've already spent a lot of time explaining this setting to me. I might still do it, but the reason why I'm trying to avoid the Yamaha 3 zone setting, is that :
- I dont mind loosing a jack input for each of my cymbals
- I'm not sure if NI Battery 3 would support that setting
- I dont want to build any box!! And using resistors would force me to.
- I already bought female jack connectors (see picture under) thinking that I could avoid building these boxes and simply wire my piezos to those connectors (that would be fixed on my cymbal's stand)

db7c_1_b.JPG

- And finally, everytime I buy an electronic part I get ripped off with the shippins fees. And buying these cheap resistors would still add to the total cost!

But I know, I know... Now that Megadrum supports the Yamaha style, trying to avoid it is almost illogical! Maybe I should punch mylsef in the nose and realize that I just HAVE TO build boxes, buy extra resistors and just risk it!

One extra question (you know, just in case )...
Everyone who talks about Yamaha 3 zone based cymbals keep refering to this diagram:

aas.gif

But as Beetmaker already asked (but got no clear answer), would this also work? :

yammi2.gif

In other words, no extra capacitor, resistor and variable controller needed on the Tip side?

Whatever setting I choose I still have these HUGE doubts about the whole choke/switch concept! I dont understand how a switch could be as responsive (in terms of dynamics) as a real cymbal having a piezo directly sticked to it! + Every material I can think of is either too thick of too thin. It seems they wont be flexible enough or will just start to bend on the cymbal after being hit too often! Time will tell if I'm wrong!

[elrules]

Sorry for not responding to you yesterday. I am very busy now...

Well, I see you are messed with this trizone thing. I will try to explain it as well as I can.


This schematic is perfect. You don't need the capacitor-resistor. I think the other setup was made by Yamaha that way to smoothen the wave signal or to stabilize it, who knows..

According to that schematic, you need a piezo, two switches and a 10k resistor. You can follow my tutorial for making the switches. But, as you have a real cymbal you can use the cymbal as half the switch. So, solder a cable to the cymbal, and connect it to the ground of the jack. Stick doublesided thick tape (that transparent tape with red cover, it is 1 or 2 mm thick) to the edge and bell as I described in my tutorial. Upside, stick that plastic-aluminum combo I described. Be careful that the cable soldered to the upper switch layer does not contact with the cymbal. You can connect a battery and a light bulb to the switch (before soldering it to the jack), so you can test if the switch works when you hit or grab it (like the animated GIF of my tutorial). THen, connect the upper bell switch layer to Ring of Jack. Connect a resistor to the edge switch layer (10k) and connect the resistor to the ring of jack. Finally, connect the piezo to the Tip and Ground of jack. Stick the piezo with foamy doublesided tape (a white foamy tape) to the bottom of the cymbal, more or less, in the middle of the radius, but closer to the bell than to the edge.

You ask how can a switch be as sensitive as a piezo. In fact, the switch ONLY tells the module that the edge (or bell) was hit, but IT IS THE PIEZO who sends the velocity information (at the same time of course).

[kimouette]

Sorry about the dumb question and infantile drawings... but I need this to be 100% clear!

Knowing I'm gonna use my acoustic cymbal as half of the switch would :

Yamaha style be this? :

yamaha.jpg

Roland style be this? :

Tentative_Roland.jpg

Or Roland style like this??

Roland_tentative2.jpg

[elrules]

Roland style is like this drawing but connectin only one piezo to BOTH jacks (tip and ground). In Roland cymbals like the CY-15R, the piezo is located on the bell, and this piezo gives the sensitivity to the entire cymbal. You can place the piezo in the bow, but close to the bell and I think it will be ok.


The yamaha drawing is good.

[kimouette]

So from what you're saying, that would be the right wiring for Roland style cymbal :

Tentative_Roland3.jpg

Gastric once said :

Whatever pad you're going to use for your hihat can then be built using whatever you want. 2 piezos (bell/bow), 1 piezo 1 switch (bow/edge or bow/bell), or 1 piezo and 2 switches (bow/bell/edge), or if you really want to waste 2 inputs on your MegaDrum 2 peizos (bell/bow) and 1 switch (edge) for a Roland style 3-zone

That's why I thought it required 2 piezos!

... If that drawing is correct, then I find it strange that this setting gives 3 zones without requiring any resistor.
I guess it's easier to choke all zones at the same time, but physically the exact same signal is sent to both jacks...

[elrules]

That is why in Roland modules, and in megadrum, you have to enable the 3way option. This option makes the module ignore piezo signals comming from the second input, as the same signal is comming from the first input. Piezo signal and No switch activated means bow hit, if it receives a switch+piezo from the first input then it triggers bell and if it receives a piezo signal from the first input and a switch from the second input it triggers the edge. Not really smart... That is why I prefer the Yamaha approach

[kimouette]

Hi Elrules!

About the tutorial on batacas.com, I finally (after using 3 different online translator) managed to translate the entire document in french. So now the procedure is 98% clear!

I have to ask about the tiny 2% missing... which are expressions that no translator can find!

Page 1

First paragraph :

What does "baquetazos" mean ?

In the list of material :
What's the difference between these two :
"- Cinta adhesiva doble capa (2mm grosor, transparente, superfuerte)
- Cinta adhesiva doble capa (2mm grosor, blanca, esponjosa, superfuerte)"

Page 2

What does "doblable por un baquetazo" mean?

Page 5

In the first picture (#21) : Does "aquarius" refer to the aluminium can?

[elrules]

What does "baquetazos" mean ?

They are the hits made with the sticks (baquetas)

In the list of material :
What's the difference between these two :
"- Cinta adhesiva doble capa (2mm grosor, transparente, superfuerte)
- Cinta adhesiva doble capa (2mm grosor, blanca, esponjosa, superfuerte)"

The first one is this (transparent, 2mm thick, ultrastrong):
http://www.oppictures.com/SINGLEIMAGES/ ... 10_1_2.JPG
The second one is (2mm thick, white, spongy):
http://pinballmagic.com/images/dstape.jpg

What does "doblable por un baquetazo" mean?

"Bendable by a stick hit"

In the first picture (#21) : Does "aquarius" refer to the aluminium can?

Yes

[kimouette]

Great!
Thanks !!