Hihat - dynamic chick - firmware testing

[gabriel1712]

The curve is applied to CC mesages, not to the chicks/splashes.

Ah I see, so the effect is to counter inconsistentcy in the CC output from different pedals, rather than to change velocity?

Judging from the CC messages both chicks are caused by the change of the pedal position. In the first instance the change from open to closed is less than 10ms hence high chick velocity, in the second instance the pedal seems to bounce up above the shortchick level and then goes down again.

Yes, it does look like that, but the weird thing is, changing LowLevel and ShrtChckTh doesn't really seem to have an effect. Also I have readings where CC numbers are nicely lined up on the way to the genuine chick but when clearly gets interrupted by the "out-of-the-blue" CC:127 and a loud ghost chick. (eg 4, 12, 31, 127, chick127, 39, 57, 72, etc...)

I'll dig deeper into this issue, install older firmware for reference and post again.

Please, test this version:

megadrum32_16_32_20090519.syx

I tried to address the first issue only in it.

Super! At the initial run it feels much more natural. I'll test it throuroughly later tonight. Thanks, Dmitri!

[gabriel1712]

On the subject of double chick notes:

Testing 20090512 and 20090504 (first version of new hh firmware)
I was wrong. It does make the ghost note as much. Only reason I didn’t notice is because it doesn’t make a ghost splash note like 20090517 if ChckDelay is set above 0. So it’s much less noticeable but it's surely still there.

Testing 20090430 (before HH change)

Clearly shows my pedal is the problem. I didn’t notice it before because MD hihat was a blunt instrument back then and only one entry showed up.

Now the only question is weather it’s a fault with my hhcontroller or a general design fault with this type of hhcontroller.
My Hihat controller


If it’s limited to my pedal, then no problem. I’m buying/building a stepless hihat very soon. But if it’s by design, I think MD has to offer a work-around, as it’s a very common pedal (goes under the name of Millenium, DM pro, Medelin and likely many other).
I’m more than willing to do more testing and suggest a solution, but before that, let’s find out if others can reproduce it, using the same pedal and setting.

Can you still connect your own optical (based on the same pedal) like it was originally intended?

To reproduce:
- Set heel down on the plate
- Do a medium strength chick
- Don’t dig your toes in or lift the heel – just a relaxed landing.
- Watch for the double 127

My hihat test setup:
Pedal: F.contr
Curve: Log1 (I tried diffent curves but didn’t notice an output diffence between them at all.)
ChckDelay: 0
AltIn: No
CC: 4
LvlAuto: No
LowLvl: 31
HiLvl: 260 (the most stable gap, beyond it spammed CC. mess.)
OpenLvl: 8
ClosedLvl: 110
ShrtChckTh: 115
LngChckTh:16
HHInput: 2
ChickNote: 37
SplashNote: 38

By the way; running 20090430 again reminded me what a fabulous job you’ve done on the firmware since!

[userfriendly]

I'll be testing this shortly with a Jobeky hihat controller (kind of like the VH-11 thingy from Roland) - hopefully next week, depending on how quick I am with building the MegaDrum itself. I think I have all the parts I need, going to start drilling and soldering tomorrow.

[Rubis]

Once I finish my first drum I will start on my hihat pedal. It will probably be a week or so.

[gabriel1712]

Once I finish my first drum I will start on my hihat pedal. It will probably be a week or so.

What kind of hihat controller do you have?

[dmitri]

Problem: Heel down, medium to slow speed often doesn’t produce chicks.

Observation: In this picture you see two medium speed chick fail.

It seems the pedal has to be fully closed to make a chick/splash. That makes it quite hard to do a natural soft chick with heel down, as heel down by definition only close a hihat to the ¼-open position.

Suggestion: Acoustic Chick/splash is not just trigger by the hihat being closed completly, but from ½- open and down. On MD ¼-open and ½- open is already defined by CloseLvl (1/4-open) and OpenLvl (1/2-open). A true simulation would graduate the velocity return, from 100% return at the ¼-open mark to 1% return at the ½-open mark.

Importance: High but not crucial. It would add an unpresidented realism to e-hats.

I tried to address this issue. Please, test this firmware:

megadrum32_16_32_20090520.syx

[Rubis]

Once I finish my first drum I will start on my hihat pedal. It will probably be a week or so.

What kind of hihat controller do you have?

I will probably go with an optical controller in the pedal, much like the one Dmitri posted on here.

[gabriel1712]

I tried to address this issue. Please, test this firmware:

megadrum32_16_32_20090520.syx

Very nice indeed! I've tested 20090519 (speed-adjusted) and first impression is very good. The time range, 120ms - 1ms seems right. Timing the new chick speeds, I noticed the graph is a log. I think that's a good choice as it favoures/weight the middle values and makes the extremes what they should be - possible but unlikely.

I think it can be tweaked making the middle values even more pronounced. But this is where I'm somewhat in the dark with my cursed HH controller pulling ghost notes and thereby wrong values in the whole mid-range.

I've already ordered the Roland FD-8 as substitute and expect it to arrive sometime next week. I'll pick up from there and make my tweak suggestions on a more solid ground.

The 20090520 (softchick) is also very interesting. It works, but how well I can not really tell with my current HHctrl, so I'll get back to that one too, next week.

And by the way, great to see other people joining the battle for ... er... hihat world domination ...or so

[gabriel1712]

Geez... That was horrible. My ISP screwed up my netconnection for two weeks with 3 failed atempts to correct it.

Anyhow, I'm back online and will be carrying this test throu when I get home.

A small recap...

I raised a three HihatPedal issues:
1) Problem: Even relative moderate chicks (speed) produce near 127 velocity.
The megadrum32_16_32_20090519.syx and onwards is a great improvement on this issue. I believe it can be tweak some more. I'll test the lastest firmware and post some screens and a suggestion for others to comment on.

2) Problem: Heel down, medium to slow speed often doesn’t produce chicks.
It's been adressed, but I'm having some problems testing it consistently because of the 'ghostnote'-issue, see below.

3) Problem: Heel down, closing at medium to high speed makes a ghost note appear before the actual chick.
I recieved my Roland FD-8 pedal and it gave the exact same results That rules out the hardware of the equation, except if it's caused by bad soldering in my MD.
I believe this guy is experiencing the same thing:

The other thing that bugs me is that Megadrum sends out a "midi note on" in the midle of the CC range when I press down the pedal real slow, and thats sloooowly pressing down. How to setup Megadrum not to do that?

This is there to emulate a soft chick. When you really slow press a pedal, you inadvertently cause the pedal to go a slightest bit up somewhere in the middle. Once MegaDrum notices the pedal going up it assumes you stopped pressing it. And if it happens between a fully pressed position and a middle position MegaDrum registers it as a soft chick.

I'll post my precis observations and screens using old (pre-ShrtChck) and new firmware tonight.

[dmitri]

3) Problem: Heel down, closing at medium to high speed makes a ghost note appear before the actual chick.
I recieved my Roland FD-8 pedal and it gave the exact same results That rules out the hardware of the equation, except if it's caused by bad soldering in my MD.
I believe this guy is experiencing the same thing:

The other thing that bugs me is that Megadrum sends out a "midi note on" in the midle of the CC range when I press down the pedal real slow, and thats sloooowly pressing down. How to setup Megadrum not to do that?

This is there to emulate a soft chick. When you really slow press a pedal, you inadvertently cause the pedal to go a slightest bit up somewhere in the middle. Once MegaDrum notices the pedal going up it assumes you stopped pressing it. And if it happens between a fully pressed position and a middle position MegaDrum registers it as a soft chick.

I'll post my precis observations and screens using old (pre-ShrtChck) and new firmware tonight.

I doesn't seem to me that he has the same issue if at all. You were getting these ghost notes even without "soft chicks" implemented purely because MegaDrum registered the pedal position jumping to fully pressed position. Remember the MIDI-OX output you posted showing CC messages indicating exactly this?